So I open a store called "Retro-Radio" wherein I sell vintage radios of the 50's and 60's. But I have the the store equipped with new custom made furnishings to look like a store from that era would have. Are the Nazi grammar vigilantes going to picket my store?
Of course. With signs saying "Retro Furnishings. VINTAGE-Radio!"
THIS is what we should all be arguing about (jump to 1:17):
Man, you guys are really doubling down on this "retro only means retro-style, but modern" definition.
Retro gaming distinguishes the type of gaming from modern gaming. As I have conclusively demonstrated seemingly without the support of anyone else here, "retro" does not exclusively mean "retro style" as the OP implies. Retroactive, retrovirus, retrorockets, etc all use a different definition of the prefix "retro." The definition the OP and several of you apply is only as the shortened form of "retro-style."
I will continue to use retro in the way that you all think is incorrect and I will continue to assert my superior use of the English language.
Now, will someone PLEASE agree with me?! Ah be ya bessfwiend!
In every word where retro is a prefix it means "before" in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development. As a stand-alone word this definition should also apply, not simply "short for retro-style." You guys are way off and I will not shut up until someone acknowledges it.
Man, you guys are really doubling down on this "retro only means retro-style, but modern" definition.
Retro gaming distinguishes the type of gaming from modern gaming. As I have conclusively demonstrated seemingly without the support of anyone else here, retro" does not exclusively mean "retro style" as the OP implies. Retroactive, retrovirus, retrorockets, etc all use a different definition of the prefix "retro." The definition the OP and several of you apply is only as the shortened form of "retro-style."
I will continue to use retro in the way that you all think is incorrect and I will continue to assert my superior use of the English language.
Now, will someone PLEASE agree with me?! Ah be ya bessfwiend!
I doubt anybody is going to agree with you, because it is a matter of context, and in the context of gaming we're pretty clearly talking about "retro-style", not generically using "retro" the prefix, as it's applied to many other applications.
In the context of gaming, art, fashion, and other forms of entertainment, "retro" is almost always short for "retro-style".
In every word where retro is a prefix it means "before" in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development. As a stand-alone word this definition should also apply, not simply "short for retro-style." You guys are way off and I will not shut up until someone acknowledges it.
Shortening "retro-style" to "retro" has been going on for a long time, multiple decades, at least.
I have never heard the prefix used as a stand-alone word and taken to mean anything else.
It's been used this way since the 1960's, so it is pretty widely accepted as the understood usage and definition when using the term "retro" by itself.
There are only a couple of people on the forum that predate the word being used this way, and you aren't one of them
In every word where retro is a prefix it means "before" in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development. As a stand-alone word this definition should also apply, not simply "short for retro-style." You guys are way off and I will not shut up until someone acknowledges it.
Shortening "retro-style" to "retro" has been going on for a long time, multiple decades, at least.
I have never heard the prefix used as a stand-alone word and taken to mean anything else.
It's been used this way since the 1960's, so it is pretty widely accepted as the understood usage and definition when using the term "retro" by itself.
There are only a couple of people on the forum that predate the word being used this way, and you aren't one of them
Right, but it doesn't make sense that only ONE shortening of the the word-phrases involving "retro" is correct when it obviously wasn't shortened at first in that context either. The very existence of "retro-style" as a word-phrase indicates that retro already had a an understood meaning. Besides, "retro-gaming" and most of the uses the OP is talking about are using it more in the prefix sense anyway, even if they neglect to hyphenate.
In every word where retro is a prefix it means "before" in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development. As a stand-alone word this definition should also apply, not simply "short for retro-style." You guys are way off and I will not shut up until someone acknowledges it.
Shortening "retro-style" to "retro" has been going on for a long time, multiple decades, at least.
I have never heard the prefix used as a stand-alone word and taken to mean anything else.
It's been used this way since the 1960's, so it is pretty widely accepted as the understood usage and definition when using the term "retro" by itself.
There are only a couple of people on the forum that predate the word being used this way, and you aren't one of them
Right, but it doesn't make sense that only ONE shortening of the word is correct when it obviously wasn't shortened at first in that context either. Besides, "retro-gaming" and most of the uses the OP is talking about are using it more in the prefix sense anyway, even if they neglect to hyphenate.
It seems to make sense to everybody else (and has made sense to enough people since the 60's that it is still in use today).
I haven't seen "retro-gaming" hyphenated, before, I usually see it (correctly) as two separate words (where you are clearly using "retro" as an abbreviation of retro-style) or (incorrectly) as a single word, where the stand-alone shortening of retro gets remashed into a prefix with a new (but still clearly understood definition)
You need to accept the reality that "retro" as a stand-alone term is a valid shortening that essentially always mean "retro-style", and it has been that way since the 60's.
Even when it's mashed up into a new prefix, the context makes the actual definition clear.
We all know what someone means when they say 'retro video games', so colloquially, the definition has changed within the context of playing and collecting video games.
A complex series of social trend collision in a certain decade created this, not mass ignorance. Had the initial movement happened 10 years earlier or even 10 years later, we might be using another term than 'retro'. But that's not the way it happened. The zeitgeist says retro is the buzzword, and that's all there is to it.
In short, context can indeed change the meaning of retro in its shortened form. So yeah, I'll agree with you CZ.
In every word where retro is a prefix it means "before" in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development. As a stand-alone word this definition should also apply, not simply "short for retro-style." You guys are way off and I will not shut up until someone acknowledges it.
Shortening "retro-style" to "retro" has been going on for a long time, multiple decades, at least.
I have never heard the prefix used as a stand-alone word and taken to mean anything else.
It's been used this way since the 1960's, so it is pretty widely accepted as the understood usage and definition when using the term "retro" by itself.
There are only a couple of people on the forum that predate the word being used this way, and you aren't one of them
Right, but it doesn't make sense that only ONE shortening of the word is correct when it obviously wasn't shortened at first in that context either. Besides, "retro-gaming" and most of the uses the OP is talking about are using it more in the prefix sense anyway, even if they neglect to hyphenate.
It seems to make sense to everybody else (and has made sense to enough people since the 60's that it is still in use today).
I haven't seen "retro-gaming" hyphenated, before, I usually see it (correctly) as two separate words (where you are clearly using "retro" as an abbreviation of retro-style) or (incorrectly) as a single word, where the stand-alone shortening of retro gets remashed into a prefix with a new (but still clearly understood definition)
You need to accept the reality that "retro" as a stand-alone term is a valid shortening that essentially always mean "retro-style", and it has been that way since the 60's.
Even when it's mashed up into a new prefix, the context makes the actual definition clear.
This is the same logic Europeans and Austrailians use to convince themselves that "spaz" is a vulgar word when they try to force their more limited definition. The word already existed with another meaning that never fell out of use. It means "uncontrolled/unpredictable/wild movements/behavior," and always has, but they'll tell you that it means "retard" just because an organization to help/treat people with Down's Syndrome was once called "Spastics Society." They don't understand the meaning of "spastic" outside of that context just as people accepting that "retro=retro style" don't understand the meaning outside of that context. Further, most just accept that explanation and never consider that they called themselves "Spastics Society" because "spastic" was already a word with an understood definition that could be used to describe certain symptoms of the condition. Indeed, sufferers were already called "spastics" in medical texts before that. The word never stopped having the original meaning in other contexts for the USA but it did in the UK and Australia. Sorry, but that doesn't mean that the word means what they say it means.
Where you say that "retro gaming" clearly means "retro-style gaming" wherever you see it, I flat-out disagree. In many cases where you consider that they simply neglected to hyphenate for the same reason that "retro-style" lost the "-style" part, you could apply either interpretation. Does Retrofixes only use retro-style fixes? No. Does Retron5 only intended to play retro-style games? No. Do Retro-Bit multi-console power/AV cables only work with modern retro-style games/consoles? No and no.
I could go on but I'll give you "retro=retro-style" guys a chance to respond first.
We all know what someone means when they say 'retro video games', so colloquially, the definition has changed within the context of playing and collecting video games.
A complex series of social trend collision in a certain decade created this, not mass ignorance. Had the initial movement happened 10 years earlier or even 10 years later, we might be using another term than 'retro'. But that's not the way it happened. The zeitgeist says retro is the buzzword, and that's all there is to it.
In short, context can indeed change the meaning of retro in its shortened form. So yeah, I'll agree with you CZ.
This is the same logic Europeans and Austrailians use to convince themselves that "spaz" is a vulgar word when they try to force their more limited definition. It means "uncontrolled/unpredictable/wild movements/behavior," and always has, but they'll tell you that it means "retard" just because an organization to help/treat people with Down's Syndrome was once called "Spastics Society." They don't understand the meaning of "spastic" outside of that context just as people accepting that "retro=retro style" don't understand the meaning outside of that context. Further, most just accept that explanation and never consider that they called themselves "Spastics Society" because "spastic" was already a word with an understood definition that could be used to describe certain symptoms of the condition. Indeed, sufferers were already called "spastics" in medical texts before that. The word never stopped having the original meaning in other contexts for the USA but it did in the UK and Australia. Sorry, but that doesn't mean that the word means what they say it means.
Where you say that "retro gaming" clearly means "retro-style gaming" wherever you see it, I flat-out disagree. In many cases where you consider that they simply neglected to hyphenate for the same reason that "retro-style" lost the "-style" part, you could apply either interpretation. Does Retrofixes only use retro-style fixes? No. Does Retron5 only intended to play retro-style games? No. Do Retro-Bit multi-console power/AV cables only work with modern retro-style games/consoles? No and no.
I could go on but I'll give you "retro=retro-style" guys a chance to respond first.
What is the problem with the situation in your first paragraph?
Different cultures have different colloquial definitions for words based on the context and usage of a term within that culture.
That isn't something new.
We have the same thing here with the word "retard".
It has a very broadly applicable definition of delaying something or causing this to move slowly.
It is still commonly used in music as a translation of the term ritardando.
But MOST people would probably think you're talking about the mentally handicapped, if you just bust out with the word in conversation.
There are tons of offensive terms in the language (and I suspect in other languages) that work this way, so I see no reason at all why you are using that to support your argument about the validity of "retro" being used in place of "retro-style" (as has been done for the last 50+ years)
On the last bit... you're completely ignoring Occam's Razor, that the MOST LIKELY explanation is that every single one of the examples jumped on the bandwagon of using the term "retro", with little care for the definition, at all, since it is a buzzword that gets a lot of search hits.
Because even if some of them using the term incorrectly (with respect to "retro-style"), they aren't using it correctly with the definition of the classical prefix, either.
So line-by-line on the examples:
*Used as a buzzword for obvious reasons*
Retrofixes -- is he doing "backward" fixes? Is he doing fixes in the opposite direction? No, he is repairing vintage consoles and games.
*Using the buzzword, but still validly "retro-style*
Retron5 -- that ISN'T EVEN A PREFIX, but they are actually leveraging "retro" correctly in the sense of "retro-style", in that the CONSOLE is retro in that it plays games of an earlier era, not that it plays "retro-style games" (though I gather it does support some homebrew, which are, in fact, retro-style )
*less clear which category it really fits, but still isn't using "retro" in the way you want *
Retro-Bit -- they are making new-manufacture cables that support vintage hardware -- this could definitely be construed as "retro-style" components, just like the cartridge cases that Bunnyboy makes at RetroUSB.
You aren't doing anything to debunk the common usage of "retro" as a standalone term, here.
Nope. I like "retro..." and disagreeing with people when I'm right.
If you were right we wouldn't be having this disagreement
That is, I think you are obviously and utterly wrong about the definition of "retro" as a stand-alone term meaning anything other than "retro-style".
But I would agree about "retro" as a prefix being generally misapplied to vintage/classic gaming, but lots and lots of people (as I posted much earlier in the thread) with the caveat that the prefix they're using is NOT the standard definition of the prefix "retro" but is actually re-prefixing the shortened term for "retro-style".
This is the same logic Europeans and Austrailians use to convince themselves that "spaz" is a vulgar word when they try to force their more limited definition. It means "uncontrolled/unpredictable/wild movements/behavior," and always has, but they'll tell you that it means "retard" just because an organization to help/treat people with Down's Syndrome was once called "Spastics Society." They don't understand the meaning of "spastic" outside of that context just as people accepting that "retro=retro style" don't understand the meaning outside of that context. Further, most just accept that explanation and never consider that they called themselves "Spastics Society" because "spastic" was already a word with an understood definition that could be used to describe certain symptoms of the condition. Indeed, sufferers were already called "spastics" in medical texts before that. The word never stopped having the original meaning in other contexts for the USA but it did in the UK and Australia. Sorry, but that doesn't mean that the word means what they say it means.
Where you say that "retro gaming" clearly means "retro-style gaming" wherever you see it, I flat-out disagree. In many cases where you consider that they simply neglected to hyphenate for the same reason that "retro-style" lost the "-style" part, you could apply either interpretation. Does Retrofixes only use retro-style fixes? No. Does Retron5 only intended to play retro-style games? No. Do Retro-Bit multi-console power/AV cables only work with modern retro-style games/consoles? No and no.
I could go on but I'll give you "retro=retro-style" guys a chance to respond first.
What is the problem with the situation in your first paragraph?
Different cultures have different colloquial definitions for words based on the context and usage of a term within that culture.
That isn't something new.
We have the same thing here with the word "retard".
It has a very broadly applicable definition of delaying something or causing this to move slowly.
It is still commonly used in music as a translation of the term ritardando.
But MOST people would probably think you're talking about the mentally handicapped, if you just bust out with the word in conversation.
There are tons of offensive terms in the language (and I suspect in other languages) that work this way, so I see no reason at all why you are using that to support your argument about the validity of "retro" being used in place of "retro-style" (as has been done for the last 50+ years)
On the last bit... you're completely ignoring Occam's Razor, that the MOST LIKELY explanation is that every single one of the examples jumped on the bandwagon of using the term "retro", with little care for the definition, at all, since it is a buzzword that gets a lot of search hits.
Because even if some of them using the term incorrectly (with respect to "retro-style"), they aren't using it correctly with the definition of the classical prefix, either.
So line-by-line on the examples:
*Used as a buzzword for obvious reasons*
Retrofixes -- is he doing "backward" fixes? Is he doing fixes in the opposite direction? No, he is repairing vintage consoles and games.
*Using the buzzword, but still validly "retro-style*
Retron5 -- that ISN'T EVEN A PREFIX, but they are actually leveraging "retro" correctly in the sense of "retro-style", in that the CONSOLE is retro in that it plays games of an earlier era, not that it plays "retro-style games" (though I gather it does support some homebrew, which are, in fact, retro-style )
*less clear which category it really fits, but still isn't using "retro" in the way you want *
Retro-Bit -- they are making new-manufacture cables that support vintage hardware -- this could definitely be construed as "retro-style" components, just like the cartridge cases that Bunnyboy makes at RetroUSB.
You aren't doing anything to debunk the common usage of "retro" as a standalone term, here.
The point was that different segments of the English-speaking populations can have different interpretations, but this often happens even within the same region as it so obviously has here (case in point: our disagreement and everyone else you think is using it incorrectly). You're assuming that everyone interpreted "retro" as "retro-style" like you did, which is absolutely not true (case in point: me and everyone else you think is using it incorrectly). I've given many examples. I know my own understanding of the word has nothing to do with a current bandwagon or buzzword application. It's clear that other uses are being dismissed as being part of the bandwagon/buzzword trend instead of realizing that they are part of the population who gets to define and interpret things too.
Again, with retroactive, retrorockets, retrovirus:
Retro- means BEFORE in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development.
This applies perfectly to Retrofixes. He fixes things that came "before" our current/modern things. By calling them "vintage consoles" while performing mental gymnastics to mischaracterize the use of "retro," you made a more egregious error than the one you think I'm making ("vintage [WHEN?] consoles;" "vintage" must be qualified). Further, the use of "retro" is EXACTLY in line with the definition I gave. Like "spastic," it's a descriptive use of one of the interpretations encompassed by the definition I provided. He fixes old stuff, old stuff comes from a time before our current position and direction in time, old stuff is "retro." It's the same use as "retroactive" to mean that something pertains/applies to older/earlier things.
I never said that Retron5 used it as a prefix. I said that the definition of "retro" as a stand-alone word can come from its meaning as a prefix. Retron5 is another example of this as they incorporated the word "retro" into their product name in a way that doesn't make sense from your perspective. It is a modern device but it is not meant to look retro-style. It is not primarily intended for playing modern-produced retro-style games. The ONLY interpretation that works is that the platforms supported are from the past relative to what is current/modern. It is DEFINITELY using "retro" in the the way I said.
I specifically chose to mention those Retro-Bit products because they aren't always retro-style, though I probably shouldn't have mentioned the AC adapter since it is made to look like it has a bulky transformer inside it when it uses a modern switching power supply. Still, my original NES and SNES AC adapters never had two full-length leads coming off it.
Another example: the Retrode. It isn't made to look retro-style or to be used primarily with retro-style modern games, it's made to support retro-controllers and retro-cartridges that fit the definition of "retro" I gave you.
Again, with retroactive, retrorockets, retrovirus:
Retro- means BEFORE in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development.
You are using a convoluted definition of "retro-" as a prefix to support your point.
If you used the literal definition (i.e. the prefix literally means "backwards") for the in the list, they don't really support your point, any longer, because I don't think you were suggesting that any of the uses we're discussing, related to gaming, are "backwards-acting", rather they are referential or apply to a previous time-period (i.e. the whole concept of retro-style).
Retrorockets - literally mean backwards-facing rockets
Retrovirus - literally means a virus that uses reverse (i.e. backward) transcription
They aren't using "retro-" with a stretched-out definition that you can try and bend around to suit your explanation.
They use a very direct, and very literal, usage of the Latin "retro". (it doesn't mean "before", it means "backward")
And I think you're still completely ignoring the most obvious explanation for any of the company or product names you list that use Retro.
Which is funny when you claim that I'm the one engaging in mental gymnastics to justify word choice...
Retrofixes isn't doing backwards repairs, or repairs in reverse.
He isn't doing repairs behind himself, either.
He is doing repairs on consoles from an earlier era, which is MUCH closer in definition to "retro-style" (i.e. fashion of an earlier era) than the examples you're trying to hold up with words that use the retro prefix.
Now you could try and make the point that he is doing "backward" repairs by using an extended definition of backward that says he's "toward the past".
But that extent, "retro-style" trunctated to the stand-alone "retro" carries that connotation, inherently, and would also be completely accurately used, which is what I've been saying all along
thread over sorry Czroe. not just the adjective. you are now a dank hipster collector. no one today in our hobby is using retro as a prefix so that doesnt even matter.
thread over sorry Czroe. not just the adjective. you are now a dank hipster collector. no one today in our hobby is using retro as a prefix so that doesnt even matter.
Which is why I specifically spoke of its use as a prefix and that any misuse as a stand-alone word is a different kind of mis-use: neglecting to hyphenate.
This is fun!
It isn't being misused as a stand-alone word, though, when that stand-alone word has had an understood definition for 50+ years.
Comments
The teachers here are no longer allowed to grade on spelling. They can grade an essay but not correct any of the spelling / grammar mistakes.
Are you serious, cause it ain't the case over here.
I had to reread those sentences several times to make sure I wasn't reading it wrong. My god times certainly have changed...
So I open a store called "Retro-Radio" wherein I sell vintage radios of the 50's and 60's. But I have the the store equipped with new custom made furnishings to look like a store from that era would have. Are the Nazi grammar vigilantes going to picket my store?
Of course. With signs saying "Retro Furnishings. VINTAGE-Radio!"
THIS is what we should all be arguing about (jump to 1:17):
Should be "Vintage '50s/'60s radios."
Retro gaming distinguishes the type of gaming from modern gaming. As I have conclusively demonstrated seemingly without the support of anyone else here, "retro" does not exclusively mean "retro style" as the OP implies. Retroactive, retrovirus, retrorockets, etc all use a different definition of the prefix "retro." The definition the OP and several of you apply is only as the shortened form of "retro-style."
I will continue to use retro in the way that you all think is incorrect and I will continue to assert my superior use of the English language.
Now, will someone PLEASE agree with me?! Ah be ya bessfwiend!
Man, you guys are really doubling down on this "retro only means retro-style, but modern" definition.
Retro gaming distinguishes the type of gaming from modern gaming. As I have conclusively demonstrated seemingly without the support of anyone else here, retro" does not exclusively mean "retro style" as the OP implies. Retroactive, retrovirus, retrorockets, etc all use a different definition of the prefix "retro." The definition the OP and several of you apply is only as the shortened form of "retro-style."
I will continue to use retro in the way that you all think is incorrect and I will continue to assert my superior use of the English language.
Now, will someone PLEASE agree with me?! Ah be ya bessfwiend!
I doubt anybody is going to agree with you, because it is a matter of context, and in the context of gaming we're pretty clearly talking about "retro-style", not generically using "retro" the prefix, as it's applied to many other applications.
In the context of gaming, art, fashion, and other forms of entertainment, "retro" is almost always short for "retro-style".
In every word where retro is a prefix it means "before" in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development. As a stand-alone word this definition should also apply, not simply "short for retro-style." You guys are way off and I will not shut up until someone acknowledges it.
Shortening "retro-style" to "retro" has been going on for a long time, multiple decades, at least.
I have never heard the prefix used as a stand-alone word and taken to mean anything else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_style
It's been used this way since the 1960's, so it is pretty widely accepted as the understood usage and definition when using the term "retro" by itself.
There are only a couple of people on the forum that predate the word being used this way, and you aren't one of them
In every word where retro is a prefix it means "before" in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development. As a stand-alone word this definition should also apply, not simply "short for retro-style." You guys are way off and I will not shut up until someone acknowledges it.
Shortening "retro-style" to "retro" has been going on for a long time, multiple decades, at least.
I have never heard the prefix used as a stand-alone word and taken to mean anything else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ret...
It's been used this way since the 1960's, so it is pretty widely accepted as the understood usage and definition when using the term "retro" by itself.
There are only a couple of people on the forum that predate the word being used this way, and you aren't one of them
Right, but it doesn't make sense that only ONE shortening of the the word-phrases involving "retro" is correct when it obviously wasn't shortened at first in that context either. The very existence of "retro-style" as a word-phrase indicates that retro already had a an understood meaning. Besides, "retro-gaming" and most of the uses the OP is talking about are using it more in the prefix sense anyway, even if they neglect to hyphenate.
In every word where retro is a prefix it means "before" in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development. As a stand-alone word this definition should also apply, not simply "short for retro-style." You guys are way off and I will not shut up until someone acknowledges it.
Shortening "retro-style" to "retro" has been going on for a long time, multiple decades, at least.
I have never heard the prefix used as a stand-alone word and taken to mean anything else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_style
It's been used this way since the 1960's, so it is pretty widely accepted as the understood usage and definition when using the term "retro" by itself.
There are only a couple of people on the forum that predate the word being used this way, and you aren't one of them
Right, but it doesn't make sense that only ONE shortening of the word is correct when it obviously wasn't shortened at first in that context either. Besides, "retro-gaming" and most of the uses the OP is talking about are using it more in the prefix sense anyway, even if they neglect to hyphenate.
It seems to make sense to everybody else (and has made sense to enough people since the 60's that it is still in use today).
I haven't seen "retro-gaming" hyphenated, before, I usually see it (correctly) as two separate words (where you are clearly using "retro" as an abbreviation of retro-style) or (incorrectly) as a single word, where the stand-alone shortening of retro gets remashed into a prefix with a new (but still clearly understood definition)
You need to accept the reality that "retro" as a stand-alone term is a valid shortening that essentially always mean "retro-style", and it has been that way since the 60's.
Even when it's mashed up into a new prefix, the context makes the actual definition clear.
We all know what someone means when they say 'retro video games', so colloquially, the definition has changed within the context of playing and collecting video games.
A complex series of social trend collision in a certain decade created this, not mass ignorance. Had the initial movement happened 10 years earlier or even 10 years later, we might be using another term than 'retro'. But that's not the way it happened. The zeitgeist says retro is the buzzword, and that's all there is to it.
In short, context can indeed change the meaning of retro in its shortened form. So yeah, I'll agree with you CZ.
In every word where retro is a prefix it means "before" in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development. As a stand-alone word this definition should also apply, not simply "short for retro-style." You guys are way off and I will not shut up until someone acknowledges it.
Shortening "retro-style" to "retro" has been going on for a long time, multiple decades, at least.
I have never heard the prefix used as a stand-alone word and taken to mean anything else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_style
It's been used this way since the 1960's, so it is pretty widely accepted as the understood usage and definition when using the term "retro" by itself.
There are only a couple of people on the forum that predate the word being used this way, and you aren't one of them
Right, but it doesn't make sense that only ONE shortening of the word is correct when it obviously wasn't shortened at first in that context either. Besides, "retro-gaming" and most of the uses the OP is talking about are using it more in the prefix sense anyway, even if they neglect to hyphenate.
It seems to make sense to everybody else (and has made sense to enough people since the 60's that it is still in use today).
I haven't seen "retro-gaming" hyphenated, before, I usually see it (correctly) as two separate words (where you are clearly using "retro" as an abbreviation of retro-style) or (incorrectly) as a single word, where the stand-alone shortening of retro gets remashed into a prefix with a new (but still clearly understood definition)
You need to accept the reality that "retro" as a stand-alone term is a valid shortening that essentially always mean "retro-style", and it has been that way since the 60's.
Even when it's mashed up into a new prefix, the context makes the actual definition clear.
This is the same logic Europeans and Austrailians use to convince themselves that "spaz" is a vulgar word when they try to force their more limited definition. The word already existed with another meaning that never fell out of use. It means "uncontrolled/unpredictable/wild movements/behavior," and always has, but they'll tell you that it means "retard" just because an organization to help/treat people with Down's Syndrome was once called "Spastics Society." They don't understand the meaning of "spastic" outside of that context just as people accepting that "retro=retro style" don't understand the meaning outside of that context. Further, most just accept that explanation and never consider that they called themselves "Spastics Society" because "spastic" was already a word with an understood definition that could be used to describe certain symptoms of the condition. Indeed, sufferers were already called "spastics" in medical texts before that. The word never stopped having the original meaning in other contexts for the USA but it did in the UK and Australia. Sorry, but that doesn't mean that the word means what they say it means.
Where you say that "retro gaming" clearly means "retro-style gaming" wherever you see it, I flat-out disagree. In many cases where you consider that they simply neglected to hyphenate for the same reason that "retro-style" lost the "-style" part, you could apply either interpretation. Does Retrofixes only use retro-style fixes? No. Does Retron5 only intended to play retro-style games? No. Do Retro-Bit multi-console power/AV cables only work with modern retro-style games/consoles? No and no.
I could go on but I'll give you "retro=retro-style" guys a chance to respond first.
Let's all just agree to call it classic gaming ffs
Nope. I like "retro..." and disagreeing with people when I'm right.
Frankly, I love the term, definition be damned.
We all know what someone means when they say 'retro video games', so colloquially, the definition has changed within the context of playing and collecting video games.
A complex series of social trend collision in a certain decade created this, not mass ignorance. Had the initial movement happened 10 years earlier or even 10 years later, we might be using another term than 'retro'. But that's not the way it happened. The zeitgeist says retro is the buzzword, and that's all there is to it.
In short, context can indeed change the meaning of retro in its shortened form. So yeah, I'll agree with you CZ.
Bessfwiends fa woif!
This is the same logic Europeans and Austrailians use to convince themselves that "spaz" is a vulgar word when they try to force their more limited definition. It means "uncontrolled/unpredictable/wild movements/behavior," and always has, but they'll tell you that it means "retard" just because an organization to help/treat people with Down's Syndrome was once called "Spastics Society." They don't understand the meaning of "spastic" outside of that context just as people accepting that "retro=retro style" don't understand the meaning outside of that context. Further, most just accept that explanation and never consider that they called themselves "Spastics Society" because "spastic" was already a word with an understood definition that could be used to describe certain symptoms of the condition. Indeed, sufferers were already called "spastics" in medical texts before that. The word never stopped having the original meaning in other contexts for the USA but it did in the UK and Australia. Sorry, but that doesn't mean that the word means what they say it means.
Where you say that "retro gaming" clearly means "retro-style gaming" wherever you see it, I flat-out disagree. In many cases where you consider that they simply neglected to hyphenate for the same reason that "retro-style" lost the "-style" part, you could apply either interpretation. Does Retrofixes only use retro-style fixes? No. Does Retron5 only intended to play retro-style games? No. Do Retro-Bit multi-console power/AV cables only work with modern retro-style games/consoles? No and no.
I could go on but I'll give you "retro=retro-style" guys a chance to respond first.
What is the problem with the situation in your first paragraph?
Different cultures have different colloquial definitions for words based on the context and usage of a term within that culture.
That isn't something new.
We have the same thing here with the word "retard".
It has a very broadly applicable definition of delaying something or causing this to move slowly.
It is still commonly used in music as a translation of the term ritardando.
But MOST people would probably think you're talking about the mentally handicapped, if you just bust out with the word in conversation.
There are tons of offensive terms in the language (and I suspect in other languages) that work this way, so I see no reason at all why you are using that to support your argument about the validity of "retro" being used in place of "retro-style" (as has been done for the last 50+ years)
On the last bit... you're completely ignoring Occam's Razor, that the MOST LIKELY explanation is that every single one of the examples jumped on the bandwagon of using the term "retro", with little care for the definition, at all, since it is a buzzword that gets a lot of search hits.
Because even if some of them using the term incorrectly (with respect to "retro-style"), they aren't using it correctly with the definition of the classical prefix, either.
So line-by-line on the examples:
*Used as a buzzword for obvious reasons*
Retrofixes -- is he doing "backward" fixes? Is he doing fixes in the opposite direction? No, he is repairing vintage consoles and games.
*Using the buzzword, but still validly "retro-style*
Retron5 -- that ISN'T EVEN A PREFIX, but they are actually leveraging "retro" correctly in the sense of "retro-style", in that the CONSOLE is retro in that it plays games of an earlier era, not that it plays "retro-style games" (though I gather it does support some homebrew, which are, in fact, retro-style )
*less clear which category it really fits, but still isn't using "retro" in the way you want *
Retro-Bit -- they are making new-manufacture cables that support vintage hardware -- this could definitely be construed as "retro-style" components, just like the cartridge cases that Bunnyboy makes at RetroUSB.
You aren't doing anything to debunk the common usage of "retro" as a standalone term, here.
Nope. I like "retro..." and disagreeing with people when I'm right.
If you were right we wouldn't be having this disagreement
That is, I think you are obviously and utterly wrong about the definition of "retro" as a stand-alone term meaning anything other than "retro-style".
But I would agree about "retro" as a prefix being generally misapplied to vintage/classic gaming, but lots and lots of people (as I posted much earlier in the thread) with the caveat that the prefix they're using is NOT the standard definition of the prefix "retro" but is actually re-prefixing the shortened term for "retro-style".
Let's all just agree to call it classic gaming ffs
Yeah.
This is the same logic Europeans and Austrailians use to convince themselves that "spaz" is a vulgar word when they try to force their more limited definition. It means "uncontrolled/unpredictable/wild movements/behavior," and always has, but they'll tell you that it means "retard" just because an organization to help/treat people with Down's Syndrome was once called "Spastics Society." They don't understand the meaning of "spastic" outside of that context just as people accepting that "retro=retro style" don't understand the meaning outside of that context. Further, most just accept that explanation and never consider that they called themselves "Spastics Society" because "spastic" was already a word with an understood definition that could be used to describe certain symptoms of the condition. Indeed, sufferers were already called "spastics" in medical texts before that. The word never stopped having the original meaning in other contexts for the USA but it did in the UK and Australia. Sorry, but that doesn't mean that the word means what they say it means.
Where you say that "retro gaming" clearly means "retro-style gaming" wherever you see it, I flat-out disagree. In many cases where you consider that they simply neglected to hyphenate for the same reason that "retro-style" lost the "-style" part, you could apply either interpretation. Does Retrofixes only use retro-style fixes? No. Does Retron5 only intended to play retro-style games? No. Do Retro-Bit multi-console power/AV cables only work with modern retro-style games/consoles? No and no.
I could go on but I'll give you "retro=retro-style" guys a chance to respond first.
What is the problem with the situation in your first paragraph?
Different cultures have different colloquial definitions for words based on the context and usage of a term within that culture.
That isn't something new.
We have the same thing here with the word "retard".
It has a very broadly applicable definition of delaying something or causing this to move slowly.
It is still commonly used in music as a translation of the term ritardando.
But MOST people would probably think you're talking about the mentally handicapped, if you just bust out with the word in conversation.
There are tons of offensive terms in the language (and I suspect in other languages) that work this way, so I see no reason at all why you are using that to support your argument about the validity of "retro" being used in place of "retro-style" (as has been done for the last 50+ years)
On the last bit... you're completely ignoring Occam's Razor, that the MOST LIKELY explanation is that every single one of the examples jumped on the bandwagon of using the term "retro", with little care for the definition, at all, since it is a buzzword that gets a lot of search hits.
Because even if some of them using the term incorrectly (with respect to "retro-style"), they aren't using it correctly with the definition of the classical prefix, either.
So line-by-line on the examples:
*Used as a buzzword for obvious reasons*
Retrofixes -- is he doing "backward" fixes? Is he doing fixes in the opposite direction? No, he is repairing vintage consoles and games.
*Using the buzzword, but still validly "retro-style*
Retron5 -- that ISN'T EVEN A PREFIX, but they are actually leveraging "retro" correctly in the sense of "retro-style", in that the CONSOLE is retro in that it plays games of an earlier era, not that it plays "retro-style games" (though I gather it does support some homebrew, which are, in fact, retro-style )
*less clear which category it really fits, but still isn't using "retro" in the way you want *
Retro-Bit -- they are making new-manufacture cables that support vintage hardware -- this could definitely be construed as "retro-style" components, just like the cartridge cases that Bunnyboy makes at RetroUSB.
You aren't doing anything to debunk the common usage of "retro" as a standalone term, here.
The point was that different segments of the English-speaking populations can have different interpretations, but this often happens even within the same region as it so obviously has here (case in point: our disagreement and everyone else you think is using it incorrectly). You're assuming that everyone interpreted "retro" as "retro-style" like you did, which is absolutely not true (case in point: me and everyone else you think is using it incorrectly). I've given many examples. I know my own understanding of the word has nothing to do with a current bandwagon or buzzword application. It's clear that other uses are being dismissed as being part of the bandwagon/buzzword trend instead of realizing that they are part of the population who gets to define and interpret things too.
Again, with retroactive, retrorockets, retrovirus:
Retro- means BEFORE in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development.
This applies perfectly to Retrofixes. He fixes things that came "before" our current/modern things. By calling them "vintage consoles" while performing mental gymnastics to mischaracterize the use of "retro," you made a more egregious error than the one you think I'm making ("vintage [WHEN?] consoles;" "vintage" must be qualified). Further, the use of "retro" is EXACTLY in line with the definition I gave. Like "spastic," it's a descriptive use of one of the interpretations encompassed by the definition I provided. He fixes old stuff, old stuff comes from a time before our current position and direction in time, old stuff is "retro." It's the same use as "retroactive" to mean that something pertains/applies to older/earlier things.
I never said that Retron5 used it as a prefix. I said that the definition of "retro" as a stand-alone word can come from its meaning as a prefix. Retron5 is another example of this as they incorporated the word "retro" into their product name in a way that doesn't make sense from your perspective. It is a modern device but it is not meant to look retro-style. It is not primarily intended for playing modern-produced retro-style games. The ONLY interpretation that works is that the platforms supported are from the past relative to what is current/modern. It is DEFINITELY using "retro" in the the way I said.
I specifically chose to mention those Retro-Bit products because they aren't always retro-style, though I probably shouldn't have mentioned the AC adapter since it is made to look like it has a bulky transformer inside it when it uses a modern switching power supply. Still, my original NES and SNES AC adapters never had two full-length leads coming off it.
Another example: the Retrode. It isn't made to look retro-style or to be used primarily with retro-style modern games, it's made to support retro-controllers and retro-cartridges that fit the definition of "retro" I gave you.
Nope. I like "retro..." and disagreeing with people when I'm right.
If you were right we wouldn't be having this disagreement
This doesn't even make any sense!
All this back and forth is wearing me out. I'm gonna go relax by playing some retro games on my ness.
*head assplodes*
Again, with retroactive, retrorockets, retrovirus:
Retro- means BEFORE in relation to current position and/or direction in time, space, or development.
You are using a convoluted definition of "retro-" as a prefix to support your point.
If you used the literal definition (i.e. the prefix literally means "backwards") for the in the list, they don't really support your point, any longer, because I don't think you were suggesting that any of the uses we're discussing, related to gaming, are "backwards-acting", rather they are referential or apply to a previous time-period (i.e. the whole concept of retro-style).
Retrorockets - literally mean backwards-facing rockets
Retrovirus - literally means a virus that uses reverse (i.e. backward) transcription
They aren't using "retro-" with a stretched-out definition that you can try and bend around to suit your explanation.
They use a very direct, and very literal, usage of the Latin "retro". (it doesn't mean "before", it means "backward")
And I think you're still completely ignoring the most obvious explanation for any of the company or product names you list that use Retro.
Which is funny when you claim that I'm the one engaging in mental gymnastics to justify word choice...
Retrofixes isn't doing backwards repairs, or repairs in reverse.
He isn't doing repairs behind himself, either.
He is doing repairs on consoles from an earlier era, which is MUCH closer in definition to "retro-style" (i.e. fashion of an earlier era) than the examples you're trying to hold up with words that use the retro prefix.
Now you could try and make the point that he is doing "backward" repairs by using an extended definition of backward that says he's "toward the past".
But that extent, "retro-style" trunctated to the stand-alone "retro" carries that connotation, inherently, and would also be completely accurately used, which is what I've been saying all along
ret·ro1
*raises hand*
Who would have guessed this would have evolved into a semantics argument?
*raises hand*
its not semantics when its just plain wrong
thread over sorry Czroe. not just the adjective. you are now a dank hipster collector. no one today in our hobby is using retro as a prefix so that doesnt even matter.
ret·ro1
Who would have guessed this would have evolved into a semantics argument?
*raises hand*
It STARTED as a semantics argument
Who would have guessed this would have evolved into a semantics argument?
*raises hand*
It STARTED as a semantics argument
On that, we agree.
Which is why I specifically spoke of its use as a prefix and that any misuse as a stand-alone word is a different kind of mis-use: neglecting to hyphenate.
This is fun!
It isn't being misused as a stand-alone word, though, when that stand-alone word has had an understood definition for 50+ years.