I understand that 240p is not a standard but saying that modern tvs are processing 240p correctly when a bunch are not is just wrong, most modern tvs do not process analog signals correctly. Obviously when the switch to digital tvs very few companies made any real effort for processing composite and component analog signals correctly, 240p while not a standard in digital video was widely used in analog tvs granted both types of tvs operate differently. I dunno what the point was in bringing this whole thing into this thread was but like i said untill i can find a tv with no inputlag and can process 240p correctly, i will stick with CRT's.
Edit: i can not believe you think snes runs at 30fps by saying the 240p is really 480i 30fps. Ill stick with the expert on analog video over that anyday.
What I'm saying is there's no video standard for what you call 240p. There *IS* a video standard for 240p, I've used it and it's scanlines, and what people started calling 240p isn't it.
And snes DOES run at 30 FRAMES be second, 60 FIELDS. 60 frames wasn't a standard till HDTVs were invented. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not, I do know this stuff pretty well you can't claim analog TVs process 240p CORRECTLY when there is no standard for it.
I got my CRT plugged in with the NES, SNES, N64, Wii and PS2; my 1080 LED TV has the PS3 and the Wii U.
I think for any 4:3 game, especially with resolutions as low as you have on the NES, SNES and N64 the CRT is the best choice. I'm lucky though, I own a house and there is plenty of room in the basement, I realize some people may only have room for newer flat screen TVs, so for them an HD NES like the AVS will be a blessing.
We still play Duck Hunt, Wild Gunman and Hogan's Alley so a CRT is also a necessity.
Not quite. The analog domain along each horizontal scanline does not define pixel width. Generally SD is encoded to digital at 720x480i 60 fields / 30 frames. This creates the dreaded venetian blinds artifacts on any sprite that flickers at 30Hz in 240p.
The proper way to handle genuine 240p content is to line double it to 720x480p 60 frames but most upscalers only know 480i. That $30 upscaler is exactly like the one in your HDTV except it ignores aspect ratio. But they have botique upscalers that process 240p signals properly. They also cost 10x as much.
Converting the analog signal to 320x240p actually does the source material a disservice by creating pixellation artifacts. This is due to the fact that console pixels rarely line up with encoded video pixels. 720h is sufficient H-resolution such that each console pixels occupies at least 2 encoded pixels. This yields a clean, sharp image that stays true to the original source. 320h introduces all sorts of pixilation and scaling artifacts not present in the original analog scanline.
I have always used a CRT for anything SD resolution. Although, after testing my PSone games on my HDTV via a PS3, I wouldn't have any problem using that method for those games, at least in regard to the graphics. The only issue I have come across is the occasional error in the PSone emulation (e.g. King's Field runs too fast on a PS3).
For now, I stick with composite and S-video on my CRT.
What's with 13" CRTs anyway? Between 19 and 27 is the sweet spot.
I found a really nice Magnavox on the curb Friday my neighbor dumped it. It has Svideo and lots of hookups in the back. Heavy as f*** but I hauled it into my house anyway only to realise it suffered from pretty bad convergence and purity issues. Also what I thought was paint rubs or dirt on the screen was actually deep scratches in the glass that could not be removed or buffed out. I pulled it back to the curb just in time for trash pickup and it's now in a landfill. Pity seeing it go as the pixels and scanlines were gorgeous aside from scratches and maladjustment. I hate seeing them die but not gonna hoard old sets for the sake of hoarding them...
I think it's the RCA 14F512T, or at least it looks a lot like it from googling. Right now it's buried in my storage closet, so it might be some time to verify it.
But in all seriousness that's how those games were supposed to be played after all. Modern TVs just don't work as well. I had a flatscreen TV in my room when I was in Japan so I used to play all my games (Famicom and PC Engine) on that TV when I was there but as soon as I came back home to my mighty 29'' Trinitron the difference was stunning.
But in all seriousness that's how those games were supposed to be played after all. Modern TVs just don't work as well. I had a flatscreen TV in my room when I was in Japan so I used to play all my games (Famicom and PC Engine) on that TV when I was there but as soon as I came back home to my mighty 29'' Trinitron the difference was stunning.
I have a 2007 (I guess one of the last CRT's?) 20" Emerson that is an excellent video game monitor (I lucked out at the apartment complex I lived at a few years ago and got it for $25)...but what happens when the time comes eventually (I hope very eventually!) that I need a new one? That's not exactly the kind of thing you can get on Ebay right? At least not without the high heavy shipping cost, and how do you even know for sure it's a good quality one and it'll get to you that way?
...but what happens when the time comes eventually (I hope very eventually!) that I need a new one?
Goodwill, consignment shops, Salvation Army, pawn shops. Hell, just put an ad on Craigslist offering to haul away any for free. I'd get a backup now if you have the space and really want one.
Otherwise, look into things like the AVS or HDMI solutions. HDMI is going to be about the only input left on modern TVs.
Just go find more CRT's now while its easy, i got 3 right now but i plan on trying for more good ones some time soon. I may go check all the places i know that get them in again soon.
I think it's the RCA 14F512T, or at least it looks a lot like it from googling. Right now it's buried in my storage closet, so it might be some time to verify it.
I have one of those. It's what I keep my NES hooked up to. The picture quality is excelent.
What's with 13" CRTs anyway? Between 19 and 27 is the sweet spot.
I got a nice 20in one that sitting in storage waiting for me to move to a bigger place. I need the smaller size to fit on a small desk as I live in a studio. Otherwise I would be all about the 20's for sure.
What's with 13" CRTs anyway? Between 19 and 27 is the sweet spot.
I got a nice 20in one that sitting in storage waiting for me to move to a bigger place. I need the smaller size to fit on a small desk as I live in a studio. Otherwise I would be all about the 20's for sure.
I know the feeling. My Sylvania 19" is in my bedroom positioned in a corner desk in the bay that was meant to house a CRT PC monitor. My 23" ASUS widescreen won't fit in that space but it goes nicely on the top shelf. The top shelf isn't exactly load bearing but the 1080p monitor is light enough it doesn't matter. I've got a very nice early 90s 27" Zenith display in the garage with woodgrain panels. It's RF only but the screen is gorgeous and has absolutely no convergence, purity, or beam spread issues. Scanlines are sharp and vibrant on it. The Zenith has a perfectly flat top that will easily accommodate a flat panel monitor, so it will be the cornerstone for a future gaming setup when I get my own place someday. Good to have that "perfect" set for future retrogaming setup.
27" CRT Sony Trinitron all the way - have it hooked up to all of my retro game systems (2x NES, 2x Atari 8-bit, 1x SNES, 1x N64, 1x PS2, 1x XBOX, 1x GameCube) through a bunch of 3/4-way RCA splitters. No input lag, vibrant colors and smooth edges due to natural scanline filtering of the CRT. And of course light gun games work .
I even have a laptop with VGA to S-Video interface hooked up to the same TV for some MAME gaming using X-Arcade Tankstick.
OP, I'm also rockin' a 32" CRT. I had a 27" Trinitron but got my parents 32" so got rid of the 27" but kept it in the "NA family"
Like many above have mentioned, it works right out of the gate with all the games from the era when CRT was the TV staple. Maybe that's why kids today don't have as many muscles as we did. They didn't have to lug around obscenely heavy CRTs!
Just had to move my 32 inch Trinitron up stairs, i need to start working out my arms again and not stop. It was a pain in the butt, the tv and my back are safe.
I think there will come a day when CRTs are repro'ed & inproved upon in such ways as an AVS! Just need that next gen youth to inovate a new era of dopeness!
I wish but they are not allowed to be manufactured in the US anymore, Africa still makes CRTs by samsung but the Leaded glass is the main reason they do not make them anymore besides it is cheaper to ship the new lighter LCDs.
I wish but they are not allowed to be manufactured in the US anymore, Africa still makes CRTs by samsung but the Leaded glass is the main reason they do not make them anymore besides it is cheaper to ship the new lighter LCDs.
Would it be possible to manufacture a CRT tube without lead additive for RoHS compliance? The hazards of lead glass is overrated. You can still buy lead crystal drinkware for instance. Also many oil paints and ceramic glazes still contain lead, some of which is soluble...
I have already stocked up on 60/40 solder in the event they try to ban the stuff in the future...
Comments
I understand that 240p is not a standard but saying that modern tvs are processing 240p correctly when a bunch are not is just wrong, most modern tvs do not process analog signals correctly. Obviously when the switch to digital tvs very few companies made any real effort for processing composite and component analog signals correctly, 240p while not a standard in digital video was widely used in analog tvs granted both types of tvs operate differently. I dunno what the point was in bringing this whole thing into this thread was but like i said untill i can find a tv with no inputlag and can process 240p correctly, i will stick with CRT's.
Edit: i can not believe you think snes runs at 30fps by saying the 240p is really 480i 30fps. Ill stick with the expert on analog video over that anyday.
What I'm saying is there's no video standard for what you call 240p. There *IS* a video standard for 240p, I've used it and it's scanlines, and what people started calling 240p isn't it.
And snes DOES run at 30 FRAMES be second, 60 FIELDS. 60 frames wasn't a standard till HDTVs were invented. Doesn't matter if you believe it or not, I do know this stuff pretty well you can't claim analog TVs process 240p CORRECTLY when there is no standard for it.
I think for any 4:3 game, especially with resolutions as low as you have on the NES, SNES and N64 the CRT is the best choice. I'm lucky though, I own a house and there is plenty of room in the basement, I realize some people may only have room for newer flat screen TVs, so for them an HD NES like the AVS will be a blessing.
We still play Duck Hunt, Wild Gunman and Hogan's Alley so a CRT is also a necessity.
According to retrorgb 240p is just 320x240. http://retrorgb.com/240p.html...
Not quite. The analog domain along each horizontal scanline does not define pixel width. Generally SD is encoded to digital at 720x480i 60 fields / 30 frames. This creates the dreaded venetian blinds artifacts on any sprite that flickers at 30Hz in 240p.
The proper way to handle genuine 240p content is to line double it to 720x480p 60 frames but most upscalers only know 480i. That $30 upscaler is exactly like the one in your HDTV except it ignores aspect ratio. But they have botique upscalers that process 240p signals properly. They also cost 10x as much.
Converting the analog signal to 320x240p actually does the source material a disservice by creating pixellation artifacts. This is due to the fact that console pixels rarely line up with encoded video pixels. 720h is sufficient H-resolution such that each console pixels occupies at least 2 encoded pixels. This yields a clean, sharp image that stays true to the original source. 320h introduces all sorts of pixilation and scaling artifacts not present in the original analog scanline.
For now, I stick with composite and S-video on my CRT.
Do they make 13'' CRT TV's with stereo hookups? I haven't found any but then again I haven't really looked that hard either...
I have a 14" CRT with stereo hookups. RCA model. Has S-video, too.
Do they make 13'' CRT TV's with stereo hookups? I haven't found any but then again I haven't really looked that hard either...
I have a 14" CRT with stereo hookups. RCA model. Has S-video, too.
Hmm, do you happen to have a model number?
I found a really nice Magnavox on the curb Friday my neighbor dumped it. It has Svideo and lots of hookups in the back. Heavy as f*** but I hauled it into my house anyway only to realise it suffered from pretty bad convergence and purity issues. Also what I thought was paint rubs or dirt on the screen was actually deep scratches in the glass that could not be removed or buffed out. I pulled it back to the curb just in time for trash pickup and it's now in a landfill. Pity seeing it go as the pixels and scanlines were gorgeous aside from scratches and maladjustment. I hate seeing them die but not gonna hoard old sets for the sake of hoarding them...
But in all seriousness that's how those games were supposed to be played after all. Modern TVs just don't work as well. I had a flatscreen TV in my room when I was in Japan so I used to play all my games (Famicom and PC Engine) on that TV when I was there but as soon as I came back home to my mighty 29'' Trinitron the difference was stunning.
3 words: Light Gun Games
But in all seriousness that's how those games were supposed to be played after all. Modern TVs just don't work as well. I had a flatscreen TV in my room when I was in Japan so I used to play all my games (Famicom and PC Engine) on that TV when I was there but as soon as I came back home to my mighty 29'' Trinitron the difference was stunning.
This is totally true, and I always forget this.
...but what happens when the time comes eventually (I hope very eventually!) that I need a new one?
Goodwill, consignment shops, Salvation Army, pawn shops. Hell, just put an ad on Craigslist offering to haul away any for free. I'd get a backup now if you have the space and really want one.
Otherwise, look into things like the AVS or HDMI solutions. HDMI is going to be about the only input left on modern TVs.
I think it's the RCA 14F512T, or at least it looks a lot like it from googling. Right now it's buried in my storage closet, so it might be some time to verify it.
I have one of those. It's what I keep my NES hooked up to. The picture quality is excelent.
https://www.amazon.com/RCA-14F512T-inch-TRUFLAT-SCREEN/dp/B0009XARJM
This one even has component connections:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCA-14F514T-14-CRT-TV-Television-Tested-TruFlat-With-Remote-/322250957052?hash=item4b07a760fc:g:~DQAAOSwGtRXy14l
What's with 13" CRTs anyway? Between 19 and 27 is the sweet spot.
I got a nice 20in one that sitting in storage waiting for me to move to a bigger place. I need the smaller size to fit on a small desk as I live in a studio. Otherwise I would be all about the 20's for sure.
What's with 13" CRTs anyway? Between 19 and 27 is the sweet spot.
I got a nice 20in one that sitting in storage waiting for me to move to a bigger place. I need the smaller size to fit on a small desk as I live in a studio. Otherwise I would be all about the 20's for sure.
I know the feeling. My Sylvania 19" is in my bedroom positioned in a corner desk in the bay that was meant to house a CRT PC monitor. My 23" ASUS widescreen won't fit in that space but it goes nicely on the top shelf. The top shelf isn't exactly load bearing but the 1080p monitor is light enough it doesn't matter. I've got a very nice early 90s 27" Zenith display in the garage with woodgrain panels. It's RF only but the screen is gorgeous and has absolutely no convergence, purity, or beam spread issues. Scanlines are sharp and vibrant on it. The Zenith has a perfectly flat top that will easily accommodate a flat panel monitor, so it will be the cornerstone for a future gaming setup when I get my own place someday. Good to have that "perfect" set for future retrogaming setup.
I even have a laptop with VGA to S-Video interface hooked up to the same TV for some MAME gaming using X-Arcade Tankstick.
Like many above have mentioned, it works right out of the gate with all the games from the era when CRT was the TV staple. Maybe that's why kids today don't have as many muscles as we did. They didn't have to lug around obscenely heavy CRTs!
I wish but they are not allowed to be manufactured in the US anymore, Africa still makes CRTs by samsung but the Leaded glass is the main reason they do not make them anymore besides it is cheaper to ship the new lighter LCDs.
Would it be possible to manufacture a CRT tube without lead additive for RoHS compliance? The hazards of lead glass is overrated. You can still buy lead crystal drinkware for instance. Also many oil paints and ceramic glazes still contain lead, some of which is soluble...
I have already stocked up on 60/40 solder in the event they try to ban the stuff in the future...