Looks like I'm in business with the anal type or something
Okay, so about a month ago I've sold a sealed copy of Demon's Crest to this guy who, according to his feedback history, has never left any negative feedback so far and thus has always seemed happy with his purchases.
Just to let you know, the game was in very solid shape. Probably a VGA 85. Here's the eBay listing :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&item=300315588134
About a week ago, I receive a complaint from buyer. Looks like the item is not as good as he wished (even thought I've provided ten pictures in my listing, just in case someone wanna see every side). Here's the short correspondance I had with him :
Him : "You wrote no dents or ceases! why would you write that when it not the case?"
Me : "Hello there,
So there are dents and creases? Believe me, it was in really really nice condition, VGA 85 guaranteed.
Maybe something happened during shipping. Could you please send me close-ups of damages? dynagonred@hotmail.com
Please apologize for these inconveniences."
Him : "Don't try to play me for a fool!!! The box wasn't crush,so that not the case!"
Me : "Sorry but I don't understand what's wrong with the game. There was
really no crease or dent on it. Once again, an easy VGA 85. Please take
a look at those pics and let me know if we're talking about the same
condition."
(Take note that I've provided a set of full-sized pictures of the listed item with this message)
So, after my second response he simply stops the correspondence, leaving me with absolutely no detail of the actual problem. Two days later, the guy starts a Paypal dispute for "item significantly not as described". Here's what he wrote in dispute console :
"Item is not as described and I want to return it."
Once again, not a single explanation about item's condition. Frankly, if the game is in the same shape as it was when it left my hands, I don't know what this guy is crying about. It's not that I have a problem with taking it back for a full refund, but the whole situation smells like buyer's remorses.
Prehaps I could win my cause by appealing Paypal to take a decision. As a buyer, I once lost a "significantly not as described" dispute where seller had voluntarily hidden heavy damages in his description's pictures. Nonetheless, the asshat was doing gross trash talk towards me right in dispute console. This time I'm in front of someone who's unable to explain his problem, even thought I've asked him twice to make it clear before going any further in the resolution. Plus, it's not like the item wasn't shown from every side in my pictures.
Also, if I ever win my dispute, chances are that he will leave me some kind of rude negative feedback, which isn't very courteous considering that I was actually trying to communicate with him before he started the dispute.
Anyway, I was wondering if some of the long time sellers in here could give me some advice or simply relate similar stories they had with that type of buyer. Any help or info would be greatly appreciated!
Just to let you know, the game was in very solid shape. Probably a VGA 85. Here's the eBay listing :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&item=300315588134
About a week ago, I receive a complaint from buyer. Looks like the item is not as good as he wished (even thought I've provided ten pictures in my listing, just in case someone wanna see every side). Here's the short correspondance I had with him :
Him : "You wrote no dents or ceases! why would you write that when it not the case?"
Me : "Hello there,
So there are dents and creases? Believe me, it was in really really nice condition, VGA 85 guaranteed.
Maybe something happened during shipping. Could you please send me close-ups of damages? dynagonred@hotmail.com
Please apologize for these inconveniences."
Him : "Don't try to play me for a fool!!! The box wasn't crush,so that not the case!"
Me : "Sorry but I don't understand what's wrong with the game. There was
really no crease or dent on it. Once again, an easy VGA 85. Please take
a look at those pics and let me know if we're talking about the same
condition."
(Take note that I've provided a set of full-sized pictures of the listed item with this message)
So, after my second response he simply stops the correspondence, leaving me with absolutely no detail of the actual problem. Two days later, the guy starts a Paypal dispute for "item significantly not as described". Here's what he wrote in dispute console :
"Item is not as described and I want to return it."
Once again, not a single explanation about item's condition. Frankly, if the game is in the same shape as it was when it left my hands, I don't know what this guy is crying about. It's not that I have a problem with taking it back for a full refund, but the whole situation smells like buyer's remorses.
Prehaps I could win my cause by appealing Paypal to take a decision. As a buyer, I once lost a "significantly not as described" dispute where seller had voluntarily hidden heavy damages in his description's pictures. Nonetheless, the asshat was doing gross trash talk towards me right in dispute console. This time I'm in front of someone who's unable to explain his problem, even thought I've asked him twice to make it clear before going any further in the resolution. Plus, it's not like the item wasn't shown from every side in my pictures.
Also, if I ever win my dispute, chances are that he will leave me some kind of rude negative feedback, which isn't very courteous considering that I was actually trying to communicate with him before he started the dispute.
Anyway, I was wondering if some of the long time sellers in here could give me some advice or simply relate similar stories they had with that type of buyer. Any help or info would be greatly appreciated!
Comments
That sucks..and i dont have much input on the situation, but it sounds like he is being unreasonable when you are trying to work the situation out. It gets me thinking though..what is stopping anyone from having a sealed copy of anything, but maybe some slight damage (dents and creases), then buying a better condition off ebay, and trying to do a little switch and return their item to the seller saying it was damaged.
Why does it have to be sealed? You can't be scared of selling due to that rationale, I mean I could even sell a SMB3 cart for $10 only to have the buyer return me a SMB3 cart with a ripped label, cracked casing, etc. that he picked up at a yard sale. The potential for that kind of scam has always been there, but you'd be likely to get caught if you had a bunch of "item not received as described" disputes with near 100% feedback sellers, as guillavoie is.
Guillavoie - Prepare for a neg, not that it is fair, but it's almost inevitable. I'd offer a SMALL partial refund (like $10-$15) in good faith, but at the end of the day you'll still probably get that negative no matter what. I once got a negative for selling a new 72 pin system because the buyer said "it didn't work". I responded that I've repaired well over 100 systems with 100% success rate and each system is tested before it leaves so I know it was working. I offered troubleshooting tips and the buyer then became offended stating: "I'm not a child, I know how to operate a system." Long story short, I refunded his full price including shipping (despite my ads saying "buyer responsible for shipping costs"), got it to work right out of the box when it was returned without any blowing or fancy tricks and still got a negative. Never will I bend over for a douche buyer again, I could care less whether my feedback is 99.9% or 100% at this point.
Good luck, you'll need it.
Partial refund may make him feel like he got one-up on you, but will not satisfy his remorse (I agree with Pats on this).
It's also an admission of guilt on your part, and changes the whole psychology of the situation, but I'll get to that in a bit.
I think it's unlikely that he already has a sealed Demon's Crest and is looking for an upgrade. It's such an obscure game, and it would really have to be one of the last games on his list for him to be chasing upgrades like this.
Paypal's gotten better about just giving refunds for any claim filed. It used to be, years back, if you saw a claim filed - you could kiss that money goodbye. With the "significantly not as described" they DO have to return it, which is one saving grace. The customer could simply get lazy.
I'd say more than half...maybe even 75% of the returns I've ever authorized have actually come back to me. Most people stop short of paying the return postage, esp in a case of buyer's remorse. Taking that extra step makes them think once again about why they bought whatever-it-was in the first place, and they get lazy. If they were really angry, or slighted, they'd be first in like at the PO the following morning to prove a point -- but in these cases, they've noone to blame but themselves and it's a psych thing.
Anyways Paypal may not even authorize it. In this situation, what they got WAS as described - new, sealed, in pictured and documented condition. Unless the customer blatantly lies about that (says no game in box, or a different game, or not sealed) Paypal will dismiss the claim, and he'll be locked out of any further claims against your money. I think they hired more people when they were acquired by eBay, noting that sellers were getting a bum deal. eBay really would like to make the climate tolerable for both parties!
That sucks..and i dont have much input on the situation, but it sounds like he is being unreasonable when you are trying to work the situation out. It gets me thinking though..what is stopping anyone from having a sealed copy of anything, but maybe some slight damage (dents and creases), then buying a better condition off ebay, and trying to do a little switch and return their item to the seller saying it was damaged.
The potential for that kind of scam has always been there, but you'd be likely to get caught if you had a bunch of "item not received as described" disputes with near 100% feedback sellers, as guillavoie is.
Not really. Tonybestbuy has been doing this for years now. He baits and switches all the time and also extorts money in exchange for feedback.
Look at all the negs, you think EBAY hasnt noticed this...especially since a bunch of sellers (including myself) have reported him.
Its ridiculous he is even allowed to buy on the site at all.
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=tonybestbuy&Dirn=Left+by
282 negatives just on this ID. And that doesnt include the positives he gave after extorting money and the seller giving in.
And Op, I think the dude has bad buyers remorse.
That sucks..and i dont have much input on the situation, but it sounds like he is being unreasonable when you are trying to work the situation out. It gets me thinking though..what is stopping anyone from having a sealed copy of anything, but maybe some slight damage (dents and creases), then buying a better condition off ebay, and trying to do a little switch and return their item to the seller saying it was damaged.
The potential for that kind of scam has always been there, but you'd be likely to get caught if you had a bunch of "item not received as described" disputes with near 100% feedback sellers, as guillavoie is.
Not really. Tonybestbuy has been doing this for years now. He baits and switches all the time and also extorts money in exchange for feedback.
Look at all the negs, you think EBAY hasnt noticed this...especially since a bunch of sellers (including myself) have reported him.
Its ridiculous he is even allowed to buy on the site at all.
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=tonybestbuy&D...
282 negatives just on this ID. And that doesnt include the positives he gave after extorting money and the seller giving in.
I'm more concerned with the paypal side, I don't care about eBay because they will not do anything to my money. Now if this guy has won 282 item not received disputes then yes there's a huge problem here and I've lost all faith in paypal. I don't think there's anyway to find that out though, that should be internal to paypal.
That sucks..and i dont have much input on the situation, but it sounds like he is being unreasonable when you are trying to work the situation out. It gets me thinking though..what is stopping anyone from having a sealed copy of anything, but maybe some slight damage (dents and creases), then buying a better condition off ebay, and trying to do a little switch and return their item to the seller saying it was damaged.
The potential for that kind of scam has always been there, but you'd be likely to get caught if you had a bunch of "item not received as described" disputes with near 100% feedback sellers, as guillavoie is.
Not really. Tonybestbuy has been doing this for years now. He baits and switches all the time and also extorts money in exchange for feedback.
Look at all the negs, you think EBAY hasnt noticed this...especially since a bunch of sellers (including myself) have reported him.
Its ridiculous he is even allowed to buy on the site at all.
http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=tonybestbuy&Dirn=Left+by
282 negatives just on this ID. And that doesnt include the positives he gave after extorting money and the seller giving in.
I'm more concerned with the paypal side, I don't care about eBay because they will not do anything to my money. Now if this guy has won 282 item not received disputes then yes there's a huge problem here and I've lost all faith in paypal. I don't think there's anyway to find that out though, that should be internal to paypal.
Jone,
I wouldn't be so sure about eBay not being able to take your money in the near future. Whether it be through your billing statement (charging your account) or other means.
Just check out this thread:
http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=20680&StartRow=1#bottom
^^^^^^Scammers are definitely going to be taking advantage of this.
guillavoie, to stay on topic if you feel that you're in the right as far as this dispute goes I wouldn't give an inch. PayPal almost always sides with the buyer so you'll probably end up losing the case but you should stick to your guns.
So someone with 1000+ feedback files a dispute over a $29 dollar system? It's common sense to take a hit if you really thought the dispute was bad enough to lose their future business. Now when a 5 feedback guy gets reimbursed for a $500+ item, then there will be a reason to worry.
I've already seen that thread but thanks. Ebay isn't taking money out of seller's pockets, that a ridiculous idea. That would put them out of business faster than General Motors. It's just like when you go to dinner and you get a shitty meal that gets comped, or if you complain about your pizza having hair in it and get a free coupon. Big businesses are meant to absorb costs in certain situations when it means losing a valued customer that does a lot of business.
So someone with 1000+ feedback files a dispute over a $29 dollar system? It's common sense to take a hit if you really thought the dispute was bad enough to lose their future business. Now when a 5 feedback guy gets reimbursed for a $500+ item, then there will be a reason to worry.
Those are all excellent points and make perfect sense. It would be ridiculous for eBay to take money out of seller's pocket's, that doesn't mean that they won't do it. I'm very concerned about whether it's going to be the seller taking this hit or if eBay will in fact absorb the loss. In all likelihood like you said it will probably be eBay that is fronting the costs (similiar to how Amazon.com handles returns.) But that remains to be seen.
In my opinion eBay should be a little more transparent in how all their new policies will in fact work as it leaves a lot of room for speculation with nowhere to go for clear answers. As eBay is very vague on these issues.
Also I really don't think a 5 feedback buyer getting reimbursed for a purchase from a 1,000+ feedback seller (probably not a $500 one but who knows.) is really that far fetched.
I'm currently responding to the dispute. It's going to be settled by Paypal. All I hope is that the guy isn't going to bust the game himself on purpose.
I sure hope it works out for you
The buyer won the paypal dispute with this simple line:
Item is not as describe(d) and I want to return it.
He waited until the last day to ship the game, and I received it Yesterday. The game was still in the same awesome condition, which is good for me, but let's remind that it is why this dispute was absurd in first instance.
Bad side: I had to pay a $42 custom fees on the returned package, which is completely wrong since it was a return. Now I must cross my fingers to get reimburse by the Casual Refund Centre.
All this time to lose a few bucks...
EDIT: Oh, and I'm still not negged, so I hope it stays like this too.
On a side note, may the buyer burn in hell and never own another Nintendo game
Wow, extremely sorry to hear that. Unfortunately though, when you do lots and lots of transactions, you're bound to have one bad one. I don't remember your exact feedback, but I thought it was in the 1000s so 1 out of 1000 is still one hell of a success rate. I've had to absorb return shipping as well and it's the price of doing business sometimes.
On a side note, may the buyer burn in hell and never own another Nintendo game
Thanks for the nice word Jone!
I must admit I've been pretty lucky so far with my customers. Most are really nice people, and the worst ones have always been workable. This one was definitely the most ambiguous.
I think this is only my 2nd return up to date. The only thing that annoyed me is that it was actually a very good sale.
Next time, contact paypal and talk with them politely. They document the conversation, and also sway the dispute in your position if you make valid points and are polite. Afterall, there are so many paypal disputes, you are just a name to them until you call in. Once you call in and get a real representative on the line, it all changes usually