Secondly, in the scenario described, if a thing traded at a certain price based on certain bids, those buyers are now out of the market, so their bids don't affect later bids, as much as a seller wishes they would (or at least when the bids are high). Bids only have to go against current active bids. And a market works by bids and offers moving towards each other until executed/traded on; not an offer refusing to make a better offer vs. competing bids.
A later bid that is far below the last traded prices is a new market, not a "low ball" which doesn't exist (except in the minds of sellers wanting higher prices).
You are trying to describe a scenario where the market has run out of buyers near the "market price".
Since prices in this hobby have been trending UP for a long, long time, clearly there are no shortage of buyers willing to pay the asking price that sellers are stating, on average.
"Low balls" are bids so low that they are never going to be reasonably met, because there are probably 10's of thousands of buyers (if not 100's of thousands) willing pay more than that.
Also, you really seem to be ignoring that we're talking about a market where sellers can EASILY sit on an item until they get offers that they like from prospective buyers.
Nobody is ever going to sell an SE for $10 in the open marketplace.
Nobody is ever going to accept that low-ball $10 bid on a Little Samson.
Because in both cases, the seller knows they can eventually get a better offer once their item at some point that makes it worth waiting.
A "low ball" is an offer from a buyer that is so low it is simply a nuissance to the seller to even respond to it, because it would never be worth their time to sell that item at that price.
If you actually "work in trading" (which could mean all kinds of things) then I could get that you don't want to accept "low balling" as a some kind of standard term.
But what we're referring to is the equivalent of you going on the market TODAY and offering somebody $5/barrel for oil, or $50 for a share of Google.
NOBODY is going to sell to you at that price, now, or for the foreseeable future.
Your offer in that case is just noise and clutter, and nobody would even acknowlege your presence in the marketplace.
I think we all know who is going to win this battle of wits.
It's less a battle of wits, and more a pitting of common usage of a word (that most in the hobby seem to understand and accept) versus whether it is a "technically correct" usage of a term when talking about large, highly liquid, efficient markets (which collectibles generally are not, anyway).
There really is no definition of low balling. It's just a seller contrived word to describe offers that didn't fall within their reasonable range. Problem is that reasonable range varies from person to person.
I got a $100 OBO item at $40 on eBay just the other week. I throw out low offers on BIN / OBO all the time with no shame. If it isn't worth the seller's effort to respond, then either they don't or it gets autodeclined. I use the autodecline feature on my own listings and a seller should do that if they have a problem with perceived lowballs.
There really is no definition of low balling. It's just a seller contrived word to describe offers that didn't fall within their reasonable range. Problem is that reasonable range varies from person to person.
A market is made of bids and offers. The market price is where a thing trades at a particular point in time and does not determine later bids and offers. That is, each market is unique.
There's no such thing as "low balling."
That simply isn't accurate.
Yeah, low balling is contextual. If an item is getting offers in a range of $40-80 that end up in sales in a month, then offering, say, $5-10 for this same item during that month is low balling. Low balling is a practice, an attempt to deceive actually.
I dunno if it could be called deception in all cases; when successful it's more based on seller desperation and possible ignorance. The guy who offers you a $5 on a $50 item is hoping that you don't have time to wait for a better offer-- or that maybe you just pulled a number out of the air instead of doing research. Sometimes it could even be that the buyer doesn't know the market value, though this tends to go on more with local sales.
A market is made of bids and offers. The market price is where a thing trades at a particular point in time and does not determine later bids and offers. That is, each market is unique.
There's no such thing as "low balling."
That simply isn't accurate.
Yeah, low balling is contextual. If an item is getting offers in a range of $40-80 that end up in sales in a month, then offering, say, $5-10 for this same item during that month is low balling. Low balling is a practice, an attempt to deceive actually.
That's called the market trying to come down on the price. By the way, offers are the asking prices in a market.
No such thing as "low balling."
You're labelling the distorting act of a sole individual as representing the 'market'. Maybe you work in market trade and are knowledgeable about it, it doesn't mean you can apply the market science lexicon like it was the end of all grid to describe any tiny 'market' actions. 'Low balling' is a popular idiom, not a term linked to any serious market theory or practice.
There really is no definition of low balling. It's just a seller contrived word to describe offers that didn't fall within their reasonable range. Problem is that reasonable range varies from person to person.
But yes, I'll agree that there is no "strict" definition that defines the LIMIT of where an offer is considered low-balling.
That is going to be highly subjective.
The last few posts of back-and-forth, are not about the threshold but whether "low balling" even exists, which it pretty clearly seems to.
And I'm not suggesting that there should be any shame in making a lowball offer.
As long as a low baller realizes they should take no offense in being completely ignored.
There might not be some exact definition of low-balling but it's one of those things where it's obvious when it happens. I got someone offering $20 for my Gamecube NFR Metroid/Wind Waker bundle (real example by the way), which is like 10% of the lowest "market" (ebay) prices for that item. That is a fucking lowball offer, it doesn't take a genius to point this out.
And yes, there is shame in low ball offers, you have a high chance of offending the seller if you do it. For instance, I would never deal with such a person that makes rediculous offers like that, not that I'm offended, but because that person is a total waste of time and I would likely just block them.
And I'm not suggesting that there should be any shame in making a lowball offer.
As long as a low baller realizes they should take no offense in being completely ignored.
And yes, there is shame in low ball offers, you have a high chance of offending the seller if you do it. For instance, I would never deal with such a person that makes rediculous offers like that, not that I'm offended, but because that person is a total waste of time and I would likely just block them.
The only time I'd say it's "shameful" is when it lines up with Guillavoie's comment about somehow exploiting a desperate seller that can't wait for a better offer.
Otherwise, it's just a low offer. Easy to ignore. No offense to take, or confrontation necessary.
I've ignored my fair share of them, and never saw any reason to find it offensive, because I knew a reasonable threshold of what somebody else would eventually pay, and I could afford to wait for those buyers to contact me.
Hell, it doesn't even really waste anybody's time, except for the guy making the low offer in the first place
I was recently selling some games for $100 a piece on ebay and that was a bit lower then other copies that were up for sell and I got multiple offers for like $20 or 30 including from some NA members. If you're going to be that ridiculous I just put them on my blocked bidder list.
And I'm not suggesting that there should be any shame in making a lowball offer.
As long as a low baller realizes they should take no offense in being completely ignored.
And yes, there is shame in low ball offers, you have a high chance of offending the seller if you do it. For instance, I would never deal with such a person that makes rediculous offers like that, not that I'm offended, but because that person is a total waste of time and I would likely just block them.
Rotfl!!! Chances are high you will offend the seller. Ya, that's what I'm worried about, offending someone cashing in on fiends. Smh
And I'm not suggesting that there should be any shame in making a lowball offer.
As long as a low baller realizes they should take no offense in being completely ignored.
And yes, there is shame in low ball offers, you have a high chance of offending the seller if you do it. For instance, I would never deal with such a person that makes rediculous offers like that, not that I'm offended, but because that person is a total waste of time and I would likely just block them.
Rotfl!!! Chances are high you will offend the seller. Ya, that's what I'm worried about, offending someone cashing in on fiends. Smh
Like I give a rip what some chump with a sense of entitlement feels. If I get lowballs offers - and I do more often than anything else - I don't give a shit.
I was recently selling some games for $100 a piece on ebay and that was a bit lower then other copies that were up for sell and I got multiple offers for like $20 or 30 including from some NA members. If you're going to be that ridiculous I just put them on my blocked bidder list.
For something in that range I'd probably offer 20 less assuming you're going to counter with an offer.
What's annoying is when you make an offer like that and the seller counters with like 5 cents less than the buy it now. If people aren't willing to haggle it down, why bother with a OBO? I'm not saying you are guilty, just in general I don't get that mentality.
I was recently selling some games for $100 a piece on ebay and that was a bit lower then other copies that were up for sell and I got multiple offers for like $20 or 30 including from some NA members. If you're going to be that ridiculous I just put them on my blocked bidder list.
For something in that range I'd probably offer 20 less assuming you're going to counter with an offer.
What's annoying is when you make an offer like that and the seller counters with like 5 cents less than the buy it now. If people aren't willing to haggle it down, why bother with a OBO? I'm not saying you are guilty, just in general I don't get that mentality.
I see that very often actually. A fairly high priced item, for example $50 or more, with a best offer option but they seem to only ever want to budge a dollar or two at the most. Like what is the point in adding the BO option??
And yeah, a lot of times throwing out a low offer is to intiate some back and forth counters. I don't know why a lot of sellers still don't understand how to haggle.
Rotfl!!! Chances are high you will offend the seller. Ya, that's what I'm worried about, offending someone cashing in on fiends. Smh
Like I give a rip what some chump with a sense of entitlement feels. If I get lowballs offers - and I do more often than anything else - I don't give a shit.
Comments
Secondly, in the scenario described, if a thing traded at a certain price based on certain bids, those buyers are now out of the market, so their bids don't affect later bids, as much as a seller wishes they would (or at least when the bids are high). Bids only have to go against current active bids. And a market works by bids and offers moving towards each other until executed/traded on; not an offer refusing to make a better offer vs. competing bids.
A later bid that is far below the last traded prices is a new market, not a "low ball" which doesn't exist (except in the minds of sellers wanting higher prices).
You are trying to describe a scenario where the market has run out of buyers near the "market price".
Since prices in this hobby have been trending UP for a long, long time, clearly there are no shortage of buyers willing to pay the asking price that sellers are stating, on average.
"Low balls" are bids so low that they are never going to be reasonably met, because there are probably 10's of thousands of buyers (if not 100's of thousands) willing pay more than that.
Also, you really seem to be ignoring that we're talking about a market where sellers can EASILY sit on an item until they get offers that they like from prospective buyers.
Nobody is ever going to sell an SE for $10 in the open marketplace.
Nobody is ever going to accept that low-ball $10 bid on a Little Samson.
Because in both cases, the seller knows they can eventually get a better offer once their item at some point that makes it worth waiting.
A "low ball" is an offer from a buyer that is so low it is simply a nuissance to the seller to even respond to it, because it would never be worth their time to sell that item at that price.
If you actually "work in trading" (which could mean all kinds of things) then I could get that you don't want to accept "low balling" as a some kind of standard term.
But what we're referring to is the equivalent of you going on the market TODAY and offering somebody $5/barrel for oil, or $50 for a share of Google.
NOBODY is going to sell to you at that price, now, or for the foreseeable future.
Your offer in that case is just noise and clutter, and nobody would even acknowlege your presence in the marketplace.
THAT is "low balling".
I think we all know who is going to win this battle of wits.
It's less a battle of wits, and more a pitting of common usage of a word (that most in the hobby seem to understand and accept) versus whether it is a "technically correct" usage of a term when talking about large, highly liquid, efficient markets (which collectibles generally are not, anyway).
I got a $100 OBO item at $40 on eBay just the other week. I throw out low offers on BIN / OBO all the time with no shame. If it isn't worth the seller's effort to respond, then either they don't or it gets autodeclined. I use the autodecline feature on my own listings and a seller should do that if they have a problem with perceived lowballs.
There really is no definition of low balling. It's just a seller contrived word to describe offers that didn't fall within their reasonable range. Problem is that reasonable range varies from person to person.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lowball.asp
There kind of IS a definition
But yes, I'll agree that there is no "strict" definition that defines the LIMIT of where an offer is considered low-balling.
That is going to be highly subjective.
The last few posts of back-and-forth, are not about the threshold but whether "low balling" even exists, which it pretty clearly seems to.
And I'm not suggesting that there should be any shame in making a lowball offer.
As long as a low baller realizes they should take no offense in being completely ignored.
A market is made of bids and offers. The market price is where a thing trades at a particular point in time and does not determine later bids and offers. That is, each market is unique.
There's no such thing as "low balling."
That simply isn't accurate.
Yeah, low balling is contextual. If an item is getting offers in a range of $40-80 that end up in sales in a month, then offering, say, $5-10 for this same item during that month is low balling. Low balling is a practice, an attempt to deceive actually.
I dunno if it could be called deception in all cases; when successful it's more based on seller desperation and possible ignorance. The guy who offers you a $5 on a $50 item is hoping that you don't have time to wait for a better offer-- or that maybe you just pulled a number out of the air instead of doing research. Sometimes it could even be that the buyer doesn't know the market value, though this tends to go on more with local sales.
Originally posted by: Gentlegamer
Originally posted by: guillavoie
Originally posted by: arch_8ngel
Originally posted by: Gentlegamer
A market is made of bids and offers. The market price is where a thing trades at a particular point in time and does not determine later bids and offers. That is, each market is unique.
There's no such thing as "low balling."
That simply isn't accurate.
Yeah, low balling is contextual. If an item is getting offers in a range of $40-80 that end up in sales in a month, then offering, say, $5-10 for this same item during that month is low balling. Low balling is a practice, an attempt to deceive actually.
That's called the market trying to come down on the price. By the way, offers are the asking prices in a market.
No such thing as "low balling."
You're labelling the distorting act of a sole individual as representing the 'market'. Maybe you work in market trade and are knowledgeable about it, it doesn't mean you can apply the market science lexicon like it was the end of all grid to describe any tiny 'market' actions. 'Low balling' is a popular idiom, not a term linked to any serious market theory or practice.
There really is no definition of low balling. It's just a seller contrived word to describe offers that didn't fall within their reasonable range. Problem is that reasonable range varies from person to person.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms...
There kind of IS a definition
But yes, I'll agree that there is no "strict" definition that defines the LIMIT of where an offer is considered low-balling.
That is going to be highly subjective.
The last few posts of back-and-forth, are not about the threshold but whether "low balling" even exists, which it pretty clearly seems to.
And I'm not suggesting that there should be any shame in making a lowball offer.
As long as a low baller realizes they should take no offense in being completely ignored.
There might not be some exact definition of low-balling but it's one of those things where it's obvious when it happens. I got someone offering $20 for my Gamecube NFR Metroid/Wind Waker bundle (real example by the way), which is like 10% of the lowest "market" (ebay) prices for that item. That is a fucking lowball offer, it doesn't take a genius to point this out.
And yes, there is shame in low ball offers, you have a high chance of offending the seller if you do it. For instance, I would never deal with such a person that makes rediculous offers like that, not that I'm offended, but because that person is a total waste of time and I would likely just block them.
And I'm not suggesting that there should be any shame in making a lowball offer.
As long as a low baller realizes they should take no offense in being completely ignored.
And yes, there is shame in low ball offers, you have a high chance of offending the seller if you do it. For instance, I would never deal with such a person that makes rediculous offers like that, not that I'm offended, but because that person is a total waste of time and I would likely just block them.
The only time I'd say it's "shameful" is when it lines up with Guillavoie's comment about somehow exploiting a desperate seller that can't wait for a better offer.
Otherwise, it's just a low offer. Easy to ignore. No offense to take, or confrontation necessary.
I've ignored my fair share of them, and never saw any reason to find it offensive, because I knew a reasonable threshold of what somebody else would eventually pay, and I could afford to wait for those buyers to contact me.
Hell, it doesn't even really waste anybody's time, except for the guy making the low offer in the first place
And I'm not suggesting that there should be any shame in making a lowball offer.
As long as a low baller realizes they should take no offense in being completely ignored.
And yes, there is shame in low ball offers, you have a high chance of offending the seller if you do it. For instance, I would never deal with such a person that makes rediculous offers like that, not that I'm offended, but because that person is a total waste of time and I would likely just block them.
Rotfl!!! Chances are high you will offend the seller. Ya, that's what I'm worried about, offending someone cashing in on fiends. Smh
And I'm not suggesting that there should be any shame in making a lowball offer.
As long as a low baller realizes they should take no offense in being completely ignored.
And yes, there is shame in low ball offers, you have a high chance of offending the seller if you do it. For instance, I would never deal with such a person that makes rediculous offers like that, not that I'm offended, but because that person is a total waste of time and I would likely just block them.
Rotfl!!! Chances are high you will offend the seller. Ya, that's what I'm worried about, offending someone cashing in on fiends. Smh
Like I give a rip what some chump with a sense of entitlement feels. If I get lowballs offers - and I do more often than anything else - I don't give a shit.
I was recently selling some games for $100 a piece on ebay and that was a bit lower then other copies that were up for sell and I got multiple offers for like $20 or 30 including from some NA members. If you're going to be that ridiculous I just put them on my blocked bidder list.
For something in that range I'd probably offer 20 less assuming you're going to counter with an offer.
What's annoying is when you make an offer like that and the seller counters with like 5 cents less than the buy it now. If people aren't willing to haggle it down, why bother with a OBO? I'm not saying you are guilty, just in general I don't get that mentality.
I was recently selling some games for $100 a piece on ebay and that was a bit lower then other copies that were up for sell and I got multiple offers for like $20 or 30 including from some NA members. If you're going to be that ridiculous I just put them on my blocked bidder list.
For something in that range I'd probably offer 20 less assuming you're going to counter with an offer.
What's annoying is when you make an offer like that and the seller counters with like 5 cents less than the buy it now. If people aren't willing to haggle it down, why bother with a OBO? I'm not saying you are guilty, just in general I don't get that mentality.
I see that very often actually. A fairly high priced item, for example $50 or more, with a best offer option but they seem to only ever want to budge a dollar or two at the most. Like what is the point in adding the BO option??
And yeah, a lot of times throwing out a low offer is to intiate some back and forth counters. I don't know why a lot of sellers still don't understand how to haggle.
Rotfl!!! Chances are high you will offend the seller. Ya, that's what I'm worried about, offending someone cashing in on fiends. Smh
Like I give a rip what some chump with a sense of entitlement feels. If I get lowballs offers - and I do more often than anything else - I don't give a shit.
Wwwaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!! Rotfl