Then yours should work fine. Laser etched means they didn't use any color and just made markings with a laser. Silk screening is white, just like the silk screened writing on the PCB.
If there are differences inside the chip besides whether the label is printed or etched, then not all "Rev H" chips are created equal. It's technically "Rev I" if there are functional differences.
If indeed multiple "Rev H" chips exist, then it is possible some screen printed chips might work or etched chips not work. I know my "Rev H" works with 8-bit Music Power so I'm happy.
Then yours should work fine. Laser etched means they didn't use any color and just made markings with a laser. Silk screening is white, just like the silk screened writing on the PCB.
If there are differences inside the chip besides whether the label is printed or etched, then not all "Rev H" chips are created equal. It's technically "Rev I" if there are functional differences.
If indeed multiple "Rev H" chips exist, then it is possible some screen printed chips might work or etched chips not work. I know my "Rev H" works with 8-bit Music Power so I'm happy.
That's what I meant by "...it doesn't make sense that the change was more than cosmetic if they carry the same revision designation, but I've seen stranger."
I'm pretty sure he tested the silkscreen led H-rev CPU and found that it was OK or else he'd have no reason to specify "laser marked."
It's very possible that there is no difference and his sample size is simply too low to conclude that there is actually a problem specific to laser marked H-rev CPUs. He broke a leg, it might have gotten overheated, it could be a victim of ESD, who knows. I think you even suggested that in this thread.
Then yours should work fine. Laser etched means they didn't use any color and just made markings with a laser. Silk screening is white, just like the silk screened writing on the PCB.
If there are differences inside the chip besides whether the label is printed or etched, then not all "Rev H" chips are created equal. It's technically "Rev I" if there are functional differences.
If indeed multiple "Rev H" chips exist, then it is possible some screen printed chips might work or etched chips not work. I know my "Rev H" works with 8-bit Music Power so I'm happy.
That's what I meant by "...it doesn't make sense that the change was more than cosmetic if they carry the same revision designation, but I've seen stranger."
I'm pretty sure he tested the silkscreen led H-rev CPU and found that it was OK or else he'd have no reason to specify "laser marked."
It's very possible that there is no difference and his sample size is simply too low to conclude that there is actually a problem specific to laser marked H-rev CPUs. He broke a leg, it might have gotten overheated, it could be a victim of ESD, who knows. I think you even suggested that in this thread.
Sometimes individual parts from the same batch have various tolerances (like how various PPU chips, even with the same revision, will default to different solid colors without a cart present) up to ten percent drift sometimes, and can drift more with passage of time or even brief exposure to heat and/or voltage extremes beyond compoent ratings. With add-on kits you've got things ike rise and fall time, precise signal voltage levels, and propagation delays. All these variances add up and occasionally you have old or barely working hardware and the addition of the piggyback kit is just enough to throw off proper operation.
Maybe the assembly line equipment were upgraded mid production run to use laser etching instead of screen printing, and there may not be much difference at all between the latest screen printed and earliest laser printed chips. Or they could be entirely separate manufacture runs with moths or years downtime between date of maufacture.
Just thought id bring this up for those people that missed the first sale. Jason is now taking preorders for the next batch of Hidef NES kits. I think this is a good idea, it will make things easier for ordering it and it wont be madness just to get one. Also, I like how there is unlimited amount of kits that u can preorder, so this will definately help us all out. The only downside is that it might take 2 or 3 months to receive your kits, but its definately worth the wait.
well, got my modded top loader today and it was beautiful....the 15 minutes I played it
Went to turn it back on a few hours later and nothing. The modder walked me through some troubleshooting and there was nothing to be had. He thinks it could be the power regulator in the kit itself (won't power on).
So I'll probably have to wait another couple weeks to get it back if it's something on the board (since it'll have to be sent to game-tech themselves
Just thougt id bring this thread back. To those people who own both or all 3 of the recent NES consoles, the Hi-Def NES, the Retro AVS and the Classic NES Edition. Out of all 3, which one do u guys think is the best way to play NES games. I own a Hi-Def and I lovenit but im curious what you guys think of the other consoles. How would you rank them.
Just thougt id bring this thread back. To those people who own both or all 3 of the recent NES consoles, the Hi-Def NES, the Retro AVS and the Classic NES Edition. Out of all 3, which one do u guys think is the best way to play NES games. I own a Hi-Def and I lovenit but im curious what you guys think of the other consoles. How would you rank them.
To be fair, the NES Classic Mini (I assume that's what you meant by "NES Classic Edition") is a plug-and-play meant for casuals and really not in the same league or even target audience.
Kevtris teamed up with Analogue I think to bring the NT Mini, which is a complete FPGA NES with the HiDef enhancements plus analog outputs. It's quite a bit more expensive than the AVS but has more menu options. It's good to have options and a healthy market to support both in addition to the traditional NES console. With NT Mini, you've got the Rolls-Royce option for those who want it.
As for me, I bought the AVS and rather enjoy it. Simple yet elegant options (sometimes less is more) and the styling looks like it could have came out of the early 90s. I still think the Analogue NT / NT Mini looks like a metallized N64, and they could have taken a big chunk off the price tag by not doing the whole "milled aluminum billet" thing for a case.
Oh yeah, i forgot to mention the Analoque Mini. Yes, it does seem a bit overdone in the design department. It functions basically like a Hi Def I assume, just with fpga instead of original hardware chips. Is fpga considered emulation or is it like some sort of new chip that is a clone of the original NES chips. I always have a hard time understanding that tech.
FPGA basically is a reconfigurable array of logic gates designed to be reprogrammable. With FPGA, you can basically clone most any logic chip or CPU there is. FPGA don't operate at speeds comparible to modern CPU, so for instance you couldn't clone something powerful like a smart phone very effectively. However vintage CPU were much simpler designs than ran at low clock speeds, so it is possible to reconstruct an NES or other classic computing platform or game console.
Unlike software emulators which attempt to convert instructions and code into another architecture, FPGA literally recreates the actual hardware. This allows for example an FPGA to interface a cartridge bus in real time, something an emulator running on an ARM could never do. The HD clones like Retron5 or Retro Freak are basically glorified emulators paired with a cart dumper, which is why unsupported mappers or homebrew will never work.
I've seen FPGA referred to as hardware emulation rather than software emulation, which is technically correct, but the difference on a practical level is like comparing the cockpit of a flight simulator to the cockpit of a plane. One gives you the illusion of flight, while the other actually flies. Software emulation merely gives you the illusion of playing a game cart. Hardware emulation or FPGA, you are actually playing the game for real.
That said, with software emulation having been around for 20 years, it is extremely mature. FPGA / hardware emulation is still in it's infancy and will only improve as FPGAs get cheaper and more powerful, as guys like Kevtris continue to reverse engineer old chips. NES has much more documentation by the community than any other console, so it's no wonder it's the first system to be fully replicated in hardware FPGA. I fully expect more consoles to follow in the coming years, including the precrash systems and 16-bit juggernaughts.
An FPGA is basically a bunch of I/O pins and a reconfigurable/programmable core that has memory, programmable logic, and CPU cores inside.
The flexible I/O pins allow it to be configured to interface with and substitute for many other chips. Because it is programmable it can simulate the exact timings and performance characteristics of many kinds of memory (ROM and RAM), I/O, and logic chips. This means it could be used to replace just about anything it has the performance to replicate: No, it can't replace a 16GB DDR4 RAM module. Yes, many can replace a 256k SRAM module. No, it can't replace an Intel Core i7 Broadwell CPU. Yes, it can replace the Ricoh 6502 CPU in the NES.
Just thougt id bring this thread back. To those people who own both or all 3 of the recent NES consoles, the Hi-Def NES, the Retro AVS and the Classic NES Edition. Out of all 3, which one do u guys think is the best way to play NES games. I own a Hi-Def and I lovenit but im curious what you guys think of the other consoles. How would you rank them.
To be fair, the NES Classic Mini (I assume that's what you meant by "NES Classic Edition") is a plug-and-play meant for casuals and really not in the same league or even target audience.
Kevtris teamed up with Analogue I think to bring the NT Mini, which is a complete FPGA NES with the HiDef enhancements plus analog outputs. It's quite a bit more expensive than the AVS but has more menu options. It's good to have options and a healthy market to support both in addition to the traditional NES console. With NT Mini, you've got the Rolls-Royce option for those who want it.
As for me, I bought the AVS and rather enjoy it. Simple yet elegant options (sometimes less is more) and the styling looks like it could have came out of the early 90s. I still think the Analogue NT / NT Mini looks like a metallized N64, and they could have taken a big chunk off the price tag by not doing the whole "milled aluminum billet" thing for a case.
It's technical name is actually "NES Classic Edition"
FPGA basically is a reconfigurable array of logic gates designed to be reprogrammable. With FPGA, you can basically clone most any logic chip or CPU there is. FPGA don't operate at speeds comparible to modern CPU, so for instance you couldn't clone something powerful like a smart phone very effectively. However vintage CPU were much simpler designs than ran at low clock speeds, so it is possible to reconstruct an NES or other classic computing platform or game console.
Unlike software emulators which attempt to convert instructions and code into another architecture, FPGA literally recreates the actual hardware. This allows for example an FPGA to interface a cartridge bus in real time, something an emulator running on an ARM could never do. The HD clones like Retron5 or Retro Freak are basically glorified emulators paired with a cart dumper, which is why unsupported mappers or homebrew will never work.
I've seen FPGA referred to as hardware emulation rather than software emulation, which is technically correct, but the difference on a practical level is like comparing the cockpit of a flight simulator to the cockpit of a plane. One gives you the illusion of flight, while the other actually flies. Software emulation merely gives you the illusion of playing a game cart. Hardware emulation or FPGA, you are actually playing the game for real.
That said, with software emulation having been around for 20 years, it is extremely mature. FPGA / hardware emulation is still in it's infancy and will only improve as FPGAs get cheaper and more powerful, as guys like Kevtris continue to reverse engineer old chips. NES has much more documentation by the community than any other console, so it's no wonder it's the first system to be fully replicated in hardware FPGA. I fully expect more consoles to follow in the coming years, including the precrash systems and 16-bit juggernaughts.
After reading all that, my head hurts now, lol. But yeah, I understand it much better now, thanks for the info. I havent tried the Retro AVS yet but I have tried the NES Classic Edition. For the price, you cant go wrong with the NES Classic Edition, especially with 30 of the most popular games on the system. Although I did notice very slight input lag, which I dont notice on my Hi-Def NES, but its very minor, doesnt kill it for me gameplaywise.
Personally though, I feel that the Hi-Def is the best option to play NES games in HD, as it uses original hardware. It just sucks that its a pricey mod and not the best option for casual gamers. Im just way too nostalgic for the NES Toaster design, haha. The Retro AVS looks like a great alternative though and I would like to try it out one of these days to compare the two systems. I might get one in the future, although im gonna wait until they fix that power port design flaw it has at the moment.
The Retro AVS looks like a great alternative though and I would like to try it out one of these days to compare the two systems. I might get one in the future, although im gonna wait until they fix that power port design flaw it has at the moment.
They fixed it. New ones are going out with a reinforced power port. It's bolted to the board.
Comments
Then yours should work fine. Laser etched means they didn't use any color and just made markings with a laser. Silk screening is white, just like the silk screened writing on the PCB.
If there are differences inside the chip besides whether the label is printed or etched, then not all "Rev H" chips are created equal. It's technically "Rev I" if there are functional differences.
If indeed multiple "Rev H" chips exist, then it is possible some screen printed chips might work or etched chips not work. I know my "Rev H" works with 8-bit Music Power so I'm happy.
Then yours should work fine. Laser etched means they didn't use any color and just made markings with a laser. Silk screening is white, just like the silk screened writing on the PCB.
If there are differences inside the chip besides whether the label is printed or etched, then not all "Rev H" chips are created equal. It's technically "Rev I" if there are functional differences.
If indeed multiple "Rev H" chips exist, then it is possible some screen printed chips might work or etched chips not work. I know my "Rev H" works with 8-bit Music Power so I'm happy.
That's what I meant by "...it doesn't make sense that the change was more than cosmetic if they carry the same revision designation, but I've seen stranger."
I'm pretty sure he tested the silkscreen led H-rev CPU and found that it was OK or else he'd have no reason to specify "laser marked."
It's very possible that there is no difference and his sample size is simply too low to conclude that there is actually a problem specific to laser marked H-rev CPUs. He broke a leg, it might have gotten overheated, it could be a victim of ESD, who knows. I think you even suggested that in this thread.
Then yours should work fine. Laser etched means they didn't use any color and just made markings with a laser. Silk screening is white, just like the silk screened writing on the PCB.
If there are differences inside the chip besides whether the label is printed or etched, then not all "Rev H" chips are created equal. It's technically "Rev I" if there are functional differences.
If indeed multiple "Rev H" chips exist, then it is possible some screen printed chips might work or etched chips not work. I know my "Rev H" works with 8-bit Music Power so I'm happy.
That's what I meant by "...it doesn't make sense that the change was more than cosmetic if they carry the same revision designation, but I've seen stranger."
I'm pretty sure he tested the silkscreen led H-rev CPU and found that it was OK or else he'd have no reason to specify "laser marked."
It's very possible that there is no difference and his sample size is simply too low to conclude that there is actually a problem specific to laser marked H-rev CPUs. He broke a leg, it might have gotten overheated, it could be a victim of ESD, who knows. I think you even suggested that in this thread.
Sometimes individual parts from the same batch have various tolerances (like how various PPU chips, even with the same revision, will default to different solid colors without a cart present) up to ten percent drift sometimes, and can drift more with passage of time or even brief exposure to heat and/or voltage extremes beyond compoent ratings. With add-on kits you've got things ike rise and fall time, precise signal voltage levels, and propagation delays. All these variances add up and occasionally you have old or barely working hardware and the addition of the piggyback kit is just enough to throw off proper operation.
Maybe the assembly line equipment were upgraded mid production run to use laser etching instead of screen printing, and there may not be much difference at all between the latest screen printed and earliest laser printed chips. Or they could be entirely separate manufacture runs with moths or years downtime between date of maufacture.
https://i.imgur.com/cTikZIR.png
Should be fine with a silk-screened CPU. Only thing that really needs to be verified is if laser-marked ones really don't work (could be a fluke).
https://www.game-tech.us/pre-order-details/
^^Could not display page. Bad limk?
That's weird, just rechecked it and it opens up just fine.
Went to turn it back on a few hours later and nothing. The modder walked me through some troubleshooting and there was nothing to be had. He thinks it could be the power regulator in the kit itself (won't power on).
So I'll probably have to wait another couple weeks to get it back if it's something on the board (since it'll have to be sent to game-tech themselves
^^Could not display page. Bad limk?
That's weird, just rechecked it and it opens up just fine.
Prolly just my dumb N3DS browser beng stupid. It's working for me now.
Just thougt id bring this thread back. To those people who own both or all 3 of the recent NES consoles, the Hi-Def NES, the Retro AVS and the Classic NES Edition. Out of all 3, which one do u guys think is the best way to play NES games. I own a Hi-Def and I lovenit but im curious what you guys think of the other consoles. How would you rank them.
To be fair, the NES Classic Mini (I assume that's what you meant by "NES Classic Edition") is a plug-and-play meant for casuals and really not in the same league or even target audience.
Kevtris teamed up with Analogue I think to bring the NT Mini, which is a complete FPGA NES with the HiDef enhancements plus analog outputs. It's quite a bit more expensive than the AVS but has more menu options. It's good to have options and a healthy market to support both in addition to the traditional NES console. With NT Mini, you've got the Rolls-Royce option for those who want it.
As for me, I bought the AVS and rather enjoy it. Simple yet elegant options (sometimes less is more) and the styling looks like it could have came out of the early 90s. I still think the Analogue NT / NT Mini looks like a metallized N64, and they could have taken a big chunk off the price tag by not doing the whole "milled aluminum billet" thing for a case.
Unlike software emulators which attempt to convert instructions and code into another architecture, FPGA literally recreates the actual hardware. This allows for example an FPGA to interface a cartridge bus in real time, something an emulator running on an ARM could never do. The HD clones like Retron5 or Retro Freak are basically glorified emulators paired with a cart dumper, which is why unsupported mappers or homebrew will never work.
I've seen FPGA referred to as hardware emulation rather than software emulation, which is technically correct, but the difference on a practical level is like comparing the cockpit of a flight simulator to the cockpit of a plane. One gives you the illusion of flight, while the other actually flies. Software emulation merely gives you the illusion of playing a game cart. Hardware emulation or FPGA, you are actually playing the game for real.
That said, with software emulation having been around for 20 years, it is extremely mature. FPGA / hardware emulation is still in it's infancy and will only improve as FPGAs get cheaper and more powerful, as guys like Kevtris continue to reverse engineer old chips. NES has much more documentation by the community than any other console, so it's no wonder it's the first system to be fully replicated in hardware FPGA. I fully expect more consoles to follow in the coming years, including the precrash systems and 16-bit juggernaughts.
The flexible I/O pins allow it to be configured to interface with and substitute for many other chips. Because it is programmable it can simulate the exact timings and performance characteristics of many kinds of memory (ROM and RAM), I/O, and logic chips. This means it could be used to replace just about anything it has the performance to replicate: No, it can't replace a 16GB DDR4 RAM module. Yes, many can replace a 256k SRAM module. No, it can't replace an Intel Core i7 Broadwell CPU. Yes, it can replace the Ricoh 6502 CPU in the NES.
So the website looks like pre-orders are open again?
I don't think they ever closed or they only closed long enough for him to explain that further preorders will be for the next batch.
Just thougt id bring this thread back. To those people who own both or all 3 of the recent NES consoles, the Hi-Def NES, the Retro AVS and the Classic NES Edition. Out of all 3, which one do u guys think is the best way to play NES games. I own a Hi-Def and I lovenit but im curious what you guys think of the other consoles. How would you rank them.
To be fair, the NES Classic Mini (I assume that's what you meant by "NES Classic Edition") is a plug-and-play meant for casuals and really not in the same league or even target audience.
Kevtris teamed up with Analogue I think to bring the NT Mini, which is a complete FPGA NES with the HiDef enhancements plus analog outputs. It's quite a bit more expensive than the AVS but has more menu options. It's good to have options and a healthy market to support both in addition to the traditional NES console. With NT Mini, you've got the Rolls-Royce option for those who want it.
As for me, I bought the AVS and rather enjoy it. Simple yet elegant options (sometimes less is more) and the styling looks like it could have came out of the early 90s. I still think the Analogue NT / NT Mini looks like a metallized N64, and they could have taken a big chunk off the price tag by not doing the whole "milled aluminum billet" thing for a case.
It's technical name is actually "NES Classic Edition"
FPGA basically is a reconfigurable array of logic gates designed to be reprogrammable. With FPGA, you can basically clone most any logic chip or CPU there is. FPGA don't operate at speeds comparible to modern CPU, so for instance you couldn't clone something powerful like a smart phone very effectively. However vintage CPU were much simpler designs than ran at low clock speeds, so it is possible to reconstruct an NES or other classic computing platform or game console.
Unlike software emulators which attempt to convert instructions and code into another architecture, FPGA literally recreates the actual hardware. This allows for example an FPGA to interface a cartridge bus in real time, something an emulator running on an ARM could never do. The HD clones like Retron5 or Retro Freak are basically glorified emulators paired with a cart dumper, which is why unsupported mappers or homebrew will never work.
I've seen FPGA referred to as hardware emulation rather than software emulation, which is technically correct, but the difference on a practical level is like comparing the cockpit of a flight simulator to the cockpit of a plane. One gives you the illusion of flight, while the other actually flies. Software emulation merely gives you the illusion of playing a game cart. Hardware emulation or FPGA, you are actually playing the game for real.
That said, with software emulation having been around for 20 years, it is extremely mature. FPGA / hardware emulation is still in it's infancy and will only improve as FPGAs get cheaper and more powerful, as guys like Kevtris continue to reverse engineer old chips. NES has much more documentation by the community than any other console, so it's no wonder it's the first system to be fully replicated in hardware FPGA. I fully expect more consoles to follow in the coming years, including the precrash systems and 16-bit juggernaughts.
After reading all that, my head hurts now, lol. But yeah, I understand it much better now, thanks for the info. I havent tried the Retro AVS yet but I have tried the NES Classic Edition. For the price, you cant go wrong with the NES Classic Edition, especially with 30 of the most popular games on the system. Although I did notice very slight input lag, which I dont notice on my Hi-Def NES, but its very minor, doesnt kill it for me gameplaywise.
Personally though, I feel that the Hi-Def is the best option to play NES games in HD, as it uses original hardware. It just sucks that its a pricey mod and not the best option for casual gamers. Im just way too nostalgic for the NES Toaster design, haha. The Retro AVS looks like a great alternative though and I would like to try it out one of these days to compare the two systems. I might get one in the future, although im gonna wait until they fix that power port design flaw it has at the moment.
The Retro AVS looks like a great alternative though and I would like to try it out one of these days to compare the two systems. I might get one in the future, although im gonna wait until they fix that power port design flaw it has at the moment.
They fixed it. New ones are going out with a reinforced power port. It's bolted to the board.