It's weird, dated-thinking threads like this that make me wonder how long it took for the sport of boxing to break the chains of perceived barbarism, or Greco-Roman wrestling before that.
You could make the argument that boxing never did. When I talk about boxing as work, a lot of my coworkers are super off-put by it. They're all polite, they just can't get past the idea of punching someone in the face. Especially one that doesn't "deserve" it.
It's weird, dated-thinking threads like this that make me wonder how long it took for the sport of boxing to break the chains of perceived barbarism, or Greco-Roman wrestling before that.
Martial artists have been kicking and punching each other for thousands of years. However, typically not sucker punching each other, especially in tournaments. Not sure where your supposed "dated-thinking" comes from. I personally think the only "dated-thinking" is the "thinking" that the only thing that matters is winning at all cost.
Again, I can find such as examples from literally any sport. It doesn't make all TDK practitioners pieces of shit because one competitor set a poor example.
True, true. However, it seems to be par for the course in MMA, at least from what I can tell (and I know it's not the case with all the athletes, but it is the case with enough of them).I think this article puts my overall thoughts down well:
#2: "The lack of respect among competitors, coaches and promoters. Since I was involved in judge, helping to promote and run events that were called "caged matches" from the early 1990's on I have come to see that there exists no code of honor among MMA schools and fighters. They talk "smack" all the time about each other, their opponents and what not. I truly understand the need to build yourself up if you are competitor and that this is a hot selling aspect of the MMA, but please remember that even in the old days martial artist would respect their opponents first."
Give that article a read. It will probably not change your mind if you feel MMA is perfectly fine as it is. In fact, the author closes by saying
"Please keep in mind that I do enjoy watching the MMA events, not to see people beat each other up but rather to watch the application of their skills. I can not count the number of matches I have watched that ended with a lucky punch or kick and to be honest that keeps me very humble and helps me to realize that no matter how good I get at my own training I could be beaten at any given time."
If that article is any sort of reflection of your personal thoughts, I think we'll have to just agree to disagree. There's so much of that article that is objectively wrong that I couldn't begin to create a counter arguement.
To close the article with a reference to a "lucky punch/kick" really speaks to the ignorance of the author.
Ignorance? Why so? Now we all know how much skill means. However, I also think it's silly to disregard luck. Seems to me that even pros agree with that. For example:
"How many fights have you had in the UFC and how many wins? I’m the UFC champion with six or seven wins. I’m just smarter. I fight tougher guys and I actually beat them. You fight the tougher guys and lose to them. Eventually, as long as you kept up with the sport, you were eventually going to fight for a world title and get lucky."
Also, while I can certainly "agree to disagree" with you, I don't think it's fair to simply say "There's so much of that article that is objectively wrong that I couldn't begin to create a counter arguement." So, if you can't create a counter argument then you lose the argument. However, I'm always open for a civilized discussion. Feel free to tell me what is objectively wrong and I'll certainly consider it.
Before going further, do you know the context of the two quotes you mention above? I asked because they both actually support was I was referencing in regards to luck.
I'm not asking that to be passive aggressive, but more because I gather you're not a fan of the sport.
Edit to add: Further more, if you're looking for a good debate, I'm probably the worst candidate lol. I don't think I've won a debate in ten years on this forum.
You're right, there's a difference between a foot literally connecting as in a lucky kick, but my point was that luck still plays a role. Maybe you're lucky if "the right person" loses and then you go up against the champ, etc etc. However, luck is luck. One should never discount it. Secondly, I assume you read the articles. Second article,
"Bisping would go on to insult Woodley’s fighting style, calling him a boring fighter and revealing that his manager advised him not to take the fight because of it."
Again, back to my original point, lack of respect.
Again, I can find such as examples from literally any sport. It doesn't make all TDK practitioners pieces of shit because one competitor set a poor example.
True, true. However, it seems to be par for the course in MMA, at least from what I can tell (and I know it's not the case with all the athletes, but it is the case with enough of them).I think this article puts my overall thoughts down well:
#2: "The lack of respect among competitors, coaches and promoters. Since I was involved in judge, helping to promote and run events that were called "caged matches" from the early 1990's on I have come to see that there exists no code of honor among MMA schools and fighters. They talk "smack" all the time about each other, their opponents and what not. I truly understand the need to build yourself up if you are competitor and that this is a hot selling aspect of the MMA, but please remember that even in the old days martial artist would respect their opponents first."
Give that article a read. It will probably not change your mind if you feel MMA is perfectly fine as it is. In fact, the author closes by saying
"Please keep in mind that I do enjoy watching the MMA events, not to see people beat each other up but rather to watch the application of their skills. I can not count the number of matches I have watched that ended with a lucky punch or kick and to be honest that keeps me very humble and helps me to realize that no matter how good I get at my own training I could be beaten at any given time."
If that article is any sort of reflection of your personal thoughts, I think we'll have to just agree to disagree. There's so much of that article that is objectively wrong that I couldn't begin to create a counter arguement.
To close the article with a reference to a "lucky punch/kick" really speaks to the ignorance of the author.
Ignorance? Why so? Now we all know how much skill means. However, I also think it's silly to disregard luck. Seems to me that even pros agree with that. For example:
"How many fights have you had in the UFC and how many wins? I’m the UFC champion with six or seven wins. I’m just smarter. I fight tougher guys and I actually beat them. You fight the tougher guys and lose to them. Eventually, as long as you kept up with the sport, you were eventually going to fight for a world title and get lucky."
Also, while I can certainly "agree to disagree" with you, I don't think it's fair to simply say "There's so much of that article that is objectively wrong that I couldn't begin to create a counter arguement." So, if you can't create a counter argument then you lose the argument. However, I'm always open for a civilized discussion. Feel free to tell me what is objectively wrong and I'll certainly consider it.
Before going further, do you know the context of the two quotes you mention above? I asked because they both actually support was I was referencing in regards to luck.
I'm not asking that to be passive aggressive, but more because I gather you're not a fan of the sport.
Edit to add: Further more, if you're looking for a good debate, I'm probably the worst candidate lol. I don't think I've won a debate in ten years on this forum.
You're right, there's a difference between a foot literally connecting as in a lucky kick, but my point was that luck still plays a role. Maybe you're lucky if "the right person" loses and then you go up against the champ, etc etc. However, luck is luck. One should never discount it. Secondly, I assume you read the articles. Second article,
"Bisping would go on to insult Woodley’s fighting style, calling him a boring fighter and revealing that his manager advised him not to take the fight because of it."
Again, back to my original point, lack of respect.
Still completely missing my point regarding the context around the use of the term “lucky” in both of your previous quotes.... You should maybe look into who is quoted, and what they're referencing exactly.
Michael Page is arguably one of the brasher, disrespectful mixed martial artists on the planet. He's also one of the most decorated karateka in recent history. A point fighter raised by martial artist (both his parents are Lau Gar Kung Fu practitioners) that epitomizes everything you dislike about the sport of MMA. Hmmmm... Kind of a catch-22. Just further supporting the idea that generalization goes both ways.
I can list a HUGE number of traditional martial artists that were champions/Olympians in their disciplines that have competed in mixed martial arts if you'd like. Disciplines that you've mentioned as being innately respectful in nature, participating in a sport rife with "drug addicts, drunks, and pedophiles."
I am not a mixed martial artist, but I am a martial artist much like yourself. I've found that most people with a TMA background that bash MMA tend to be a bit self-conscious when it comes to the practicality of their own discipline.
I own a boxing club and have competed in boxing for many years, and I personally feel like MMA is the greatest sport on Earth.
There is an insane amount of respect found in MMA in general. To use one isolated incident in a D-league organization isn't a fair qualifier.
I could post countless comparable examples from essentially every other professional sport.
This. One reason why MMA took off is because people were tired of the
shenanigans in boxing. And yes,you can find respect and the lack of it in any sport.
I don't watch MMA like I used to,but it seems like there a lot more strikers and a lot less grapplers than there used to be. I know the sexier knockouts are from the strikers,but it's still cool to see someone get submitted too.
MMA is to martial arts, as the WWE is to greco roman wrestling.
Most MMA now is more a hybrid between the 3 major disciplines of the sport. Its not like the old days when they stuck a boxer in against a jiu jitsu guy. I call it an athletic competition rather than a fight.
Having the different styles go against each other is way more interesting to me than everyone just practicing the same styles and it just becomes the same old same old every time. My brother was into UFC and stuff back in the 90s or so and it seemed interesting. I remember seeing guys like Dan Severn. Also I've heard people talk about the old days when it was crazy not knowing what kind of style you were going to face because it was just an open tournament. I don't follow any of this stuff... but that just seems like it would be way more interesting.
MMA is to martial arts, as the WWE is to greco roman wrestling.
Most MMA now is more a hybrid between the 3 major disciplines of the sport. Its not like the old days when they stuck a boxer in against a jiu jitsu guy. I call it an athletic competition rather than a fight.
Having the different styles go against each other is way more interesting to me than everyone just practicing the same styles and it just becomes the same old same old every time. My brother was into UFC and stuff back in the 90s or so and it seemed interesting. I remember seeing guys like Dan Severn. Also I've heard people talk about the old days when it was crazy not knowing what kind of style you were going to face because it was just an open tournament. I don't follow any of this stuff... but that just seems like it would be way more interesting.
Thats how I feel. I first watched the old UFC tournaments on VHS when I was about 10 years old. The mix of styles, backgrounds, and even weights of fighters made it so interesting to watch. Seeing Royce Gracie beat guys 100lbs heavier than him was pretty amazing.
Still completely missing my point regarding the context around the use of the term “lucky” in both of your previous quotes.... You should maybe look into who is quoted, and what they're referencing exactly.
Michael Page is arguably one of the brasher, disrespectful mixed martial artists on the planet. He's also one of the most decorated karateka in recent history. A point fighter raised by martial artist (both his parents are Lau Gar Kung Fu practitioners) that epitomizes everything you dislike about the sport of MMA. Hmmmm... Kind of a catch-22. Just further supporting the idea that generalization goes both ways.
I can list a HUGE number of traditional martial artists that were champions/Olympians in their disciplines that have competed in mixed martial arts if you'd like. Disciplines that you've mentioned as being innately respectful in nature, participating in a sport rife with "drug addicts, drunks, and pedophiles."
I am not a mixed martial artist, but I am a martial artist much like yourself. I've found that most people with a TMA background that bash MMA tend to be a bit self-conscious when it comes to the practicality of their own discipline.
We're obviously never going to see eye-to-eye, and that's fine. I will add that I followed Ronda Rousey during her career. I think she was great in showing the world that women can be just as (or more) exciting than men when it came to MMA. However, she always seemed brash in many instances. I often attributed this to simply the commercial side of her career. Much like wrestlers have to maintain an image, I figured RR had to maintain a "bitchy" image because it's (sadly) what most fans expected. However, I remember when she lost to Holm, dang... the reaction from many of her "rivals" was beyond ridiculous in my opinion. Just cemented my perception that there is little respect in the field. Also, maybe her attitude was not acting after all, which is also quite sad. So on the one hand, yes I respect her as an athlete, but not fully as a martial artist.
Dude its entertainment. Lots of sports are nowadays. Trashtalking happens in everysport, have you ever seen football?
Or baseball when someone pimps a home run?
Hockey is like 25% cheapshots, so is soccer. I guess all those sports suck then.
Ill stick to those, everyone else can sip tea at the cricket field and enjoy a good polo match on TV.
Well, if you're saying that MMA is entertainment, then I agree with you. Which is my whole point from the beginning, that MMA is more entertainment than martial art in the traditional sense. Honestly, I'm not interested in professional sports. When I was younger I loved watching college basketball, that was the sport I followed. Nowadays, I have no interest in college basketball, which for the most part might as well be professional. Lots of trashtalking, even cheating (in classes, can't necessarily say for cheating in the games), I don't think it has the same vibe it used to. But you know, sports is trillions of dollars, so of course anything and everything that will make money (be it trashtalking or just bloody fights) is in the end all that really matters to many people.
I don't see how boxing came into the conversation as a more respectful sport than MMA. Boxing hasn't been a gentleman's sport in 60 years. Boxings biggest star cherry picks rules and fights, and is the king of trash talking. Boxings most memorable moment is Mike Tyson eating an ear.
MMA does have a lot of dumbasses, most of those guys are guys who got into the sport through wrestling, street fighting, or straight MMA gyms. But there are also many guys that got into the sport through traditional martial arts, and are super respectful. As was mentioned before many MMA champions are highly decorated in traditional martial arts, so I don't really see the argument. Even in traditional martial arts, there are dirty fighters, dirty schools, and dirty teachers. You see them fight dirty when nothing's on the line but a trophy made in China. If you put more of those guys in a tournament with a few grand on the line, more dirty fighters are obviously going to show their true colors. It isn't an MMA thing.
I'm a big traditional martial arts fan, and I've read a lot of Bruce Lee's books. One thing he makes abundantly clear, over and over, is that different schools and disciplines argue and cheat each other constantly. Lee's big fight with Wong Jack Man ended in both sides trash talking and saying they completely dominated the other party. Who knows who won that fight, one or the other is obviously a disrespectful liar.
The Gracie family would consider themselves traditional martial artists, and some of the most well known and respected today. But I myself wouldn't call them respectful. I tend to think of them as cheats, who rig the rules and have been caught from time to time cheap shoting opponents. The whole reason they do those dirty tactics though, is because of problems inherent to traditional martial arts. They are trying to keep their schools legacy at the top. Their self promoted greatest fighter in the family is Rickson who refuses to fight anyone that isn't a can. Something Lee observed as a major issue in martial arts as well. That's why Lee was one of the first true mixed.martial artists, he hated the BS in traditional martial arts, with every style claiming to be the best and only correct answer, like some kind of religion.
Comments
It's weird, dated-thinking threads like this that make me wonder how long it took for the sport of boxing to break the chains of perceived barbarism, or Greco-Roman wrestling before that.
You could make the argument that boxing never did. When I talk about boxing as work, a lot of my coworkers are super off-put by it. They're all polite, they just can't get past the idea of punching someone in the face. Especially one that doesn't "deserve" it.
It's weird, dated-thinking threads like this that make me wonder how long it took for the sport of boxing to break the chains of perceived barbarism, or Greco-Roman wrestling before that.
Martial artists have been kicking and punching each other for thousands of years. However, typically not sucker punching each other, especially in tournaments. Not sure where your supposed "dated-thinking" comes from. I personally think the only "dated-thinking" is the "thinking" that the only thing that matters is winning at all cost.
Again, I can find such as examples from literally any sport. It doesn't make all TDK practitioners pieces of shit because one competitor set a poor example.
True, true. However, it seems to be par for the course in MMA, at least from what I can tell (and I know it's not the case with all the athletes, but it is the case with enough of them).I think this article puts my overall thoughts down well:
"Top 10 Reasons MMA is not a Martial Art"
http://fudoshin.franzkarate.com/editorial2.htm
#2: "The lack of respect among competitors, coaches and promoters. Since I was involved in judge, helping to promote and run events that were called "caged matches" from the early 1990's on I have come to see that there exists no code of honor among MMA schools and fighters. They talk "smack" all the time about each other, their opponents and what not. I truly understand the need to build yourself up if you are competitor and that this is a hot selling aspect of the MMA, but please remember that even in the old days martial artist would respect their opponents first."
Give that article a read. It will probably not change your mind if you feel MMA is perfectly fine as it is. In fact, the author closes by saying
"Please keep in mind that I do enjoy watching the MMA events, not to see people beat each other up but rather to watch the application of their skills. I can not count the number of matches I have watched that ended with a lucky punch or kick and to be honest that keeps me very humble and helps me to realize that no matter how good I get at my own training I could be beaten at any given time."
If that article is any sort of reflection of your personal thoughts, I think we'll have to just agree to disagree. There's so much of that article that is objectively wrong that I couldn't begin to create a counter arguement.
To close the article with a reference to a "lucky punch/kick" really speaks to the ignorance of the author.
Ignorance? Why so? Now we all know how much skill means. However, I also think it's silly to disregard luck. Seems to me that even pros agree with that. For example:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mma-cagewriter/jose-aldo-says-...
"It was a lucky shot that connected and I'm still the champ."
Or even more telling:
http://www.lowkickmma.com/UFC/bisping-woodley-exchange-barbs...
"How many fights have you had in the UFC and how many wins? I’m the UFC champion with six or seven wins. I’m just smarter. I fight tougher guys and I actually beat them. You fight the tougher guys and lose to them. Eventually, as long as you kept up with the sport, you were eventually going to fight for a world title and get lucky."
Also, while I can certainly "agree to disagree" with you, I don't think it's fair to simply say "There's so much of that article that is objectively wrong that I couldn't begin to create a counter arguement." So, if you can't create a counter argument then you lose the argument. However, I'm always open for a civilized discussion. Feel free to tell me what is objectively wrong and I'll certainly consider it.
Before going further, do you know the context of the two quotes you mention above? I asked because they both actually support was I was referencing in regards to luck.
I'm not asking that to be passive aggressive, but more because I gather you're not a fan of the sport.
Edit to add: Further more, if you're looking for a good debate, I'm probably the worst candidate lol. I don't think I've won a debate in ten years on this forum.
You're right, there's a difference between a foot literally connecting as in a lucky kick, but my point was that luck still plays a role. Maybe you're lucky if "the right person" loses and then you go up against the champ, etc etc. However, luck is luck. One should never discount it. Secondly, I assume you read the articles. Second article,
"Bisping would go on to insult Woodley’s fighting style, calling him a boring fighter and revealing that his manager advised him not to take the fight because of it."
Again, back to my original point, lack of respect.
Again, I can find such as examples from literally any sport. It doesn't make all TDK practitioners pieces of shit because one competitor set a poor example.
True, true. However, it seems to be par for the course in MMA, at least from what I can tell (and I know it's not the case with all the athletes, but it is the case with enough of them).I think this article puts my overall thoughts down well:
"Top 10 Reasons MMA is not a Martial Art"
http://fudoshin.franzkarate.com/editorial2.htm
#2: "The lack of respect among competitors, coaches and promoters. Since I was involved in judge, helping to promote and run events that were called "caged matches" from the early 1990's on I have come to see that there exists no code of honor among MMA schools and fighters. They talk "smack" all the time about each other, their opponents and what not. I truly understand the need to build yourself up if you are competitor and that this is a hot selling aspect of the MMA, but please remember that even in the old days martial artist would respect their opponents first."
Give that article a read. It will probably not change your mind if you feel MMA is perfectly fine as it is. In fact, the author closes by saying
"Please keep in mind that I do enjoy watching the MMA events, not to see people beat each other up but rather to watch the application of their skills. I can not count the number of matches I have watched that ended with a lucky punch or kick and to be honest that keeps me very humble and helps me to realize that no matter how good I get at my own training I could be beaten at any given time."
If that article is any sort of reflection of your personal thoughts, I think we'll have to just agree to disagree. There's so much of that article that is objectively wrong that I couldn't begin to create a counter arguement.
To close the article with a reference to a "lucky punch/kick" really speaks to the ignorance of the author.
Ignorance? Why so? Now we all know how much skill means. However, I also think it's silly to disregard luck. Seems to me that even pros agree with that. For example:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mma-cagewriter/jose-aldo-says-...
"It was a lucky shot that connected and I'm still the champ."
Or even more telling:
http://www.lowkickmma.com/UFC/bisping-woodley-exchange-barbs...
"How many fights have you had in the UFC and how many wins? I’m the UFC champion with six or seven wins. I’m just smarter. I fight tougher guys and I actually beat them. You fight the tougher guys and lose to them. Eventually, as long as you kept up with the sport, you were eventually going to fight for a world title and get lucky."
Also, while I can certainly "agree to disagree" with you, I don't think it's fair to simply say "There's so much of that article that is objectively wrong that I couldn't begin to create a counter arguement." So, if you can't create a counter argument then you lose the argument. However, I'm always open for a civilized discussion. Feel free to tell me what is objectively wrong and I'll certainly consider it.
Before going further, do you know the context of the two quotes you mention above? I asked because they both actually support was I was referencing in regards to luck.
I'm not asking that to be passive aggressive, but more because I gather you're not a fan of the sport.
Edit to add: Further more, if you're looking for a good debate, I'm probably the worst candidate lol. I don't think I've won a debate in ten years on this forum.
You're right, there's a difference between a foot literally connecting as in a lucky kick, but my point was that luck still plays a role. Maybe you're lucky if "the right person" loses and then you go up against the champ, etc etc. However, luck is luck. One should never discount it. Secondly, I assume you read the articles. Second article,
"Bisping would go on to insult Woodley’s fighting style, calling him a boring fighter and revealing that his manager advised him not to take the fight because of it."
Again, back to my original point, lack of respect.
Still completely missing my point regarding the context around the use of the term “lucky” in both of your previous quotes.... You should maybe look into who is quoted, and what they're referencing exactly.
Michael Page is arguably one of the brasher, disrespectful mixed martial artists on the planet. He's also one of the most decorated karateka in recent history. A point fighter raised by martial artist (both his parents are Lau Gar Kung Fu practitioners) that epitomizes everything you dislike about the sport of MMA. Hmmmm... Kind of a catch-22. Just further supporting the idea that generalization goes both ways.
I can list a HUGE number of traditional martial artists that were champions/Olympians in their disciplines that have competed in mixed martial arts if you'd like. Disciplines that you've mentioned as being innately respectful in nature, participating in a sport rife with "drug addicts, drunks, and pedophiles."
I am not a mixed martial artist, but I am a martial artist much like yourself. I've found that most people with a TMA background that bash MMA tend to be a bit self-conscious when it comes to the practicality of their own discipline.
I own a boxing club and have competed in boxing for many years, and I personally feel like MMA is the greatest sport on Earth.
There is an insane amount of respect found in MMA in general. To use one isolated incident in a D-league organization isn't a fair qualifier.
I could post countless comparable examples from essentially every other professional sport.
This. One reason why MMA took off is because people were tired of the
shenanigans in boxing. And yes,you can find respect and the lack of it in any sport.
I don't watch MMA like I used to,but it seems like there a lot more strikers and a lot less grapplers than there used to be. I know the sexier knockouts are from the strikers,but it's still cool to see someone get submitted too.
MMA is to martial arts, as the WWE is to greco roman wrestling.
Most MMA now is more a hybrid between the 3 major disciplines of the sport. Its not like the old days when they stuck a boxer in against a jiu jitsu guy. I call it an athletic competition rather than a fight.
Having the different styles go against each other is way more interesting to me than everyone just practicing the same styles and it just becomes the same old same old every time. My brother was into UFC and stuff back in the 90s or so and it seemed interesting. I remember seeing guys like Dan Severn. Also I've heard people talk about the old days when it was crazy not knowing what kind of style you were going to face because it was just an open tournament. I don't follow any of this stuff... but that just seems like it would be way more interesting.
MMA is to martial arts, as the WWE is to greco roman wrestling.
Most MMA now is more a hybrid between the 3 major disciplines of the sport. Its not like the old days when they stuck a boxer in against a jiu jitsu guy. I call it an athletic competition rather than a fight.
Having the different styles go against each other is way more interesting to me than everyone just practicing the same styles and it just becomes the same old same old every time. My brother was into UFC and stuff back in the 90s or so and it seemed interesting. I remember seeing guys like Dan Severn. Also I've heard people talk about the old days when it was crazy not knowing what kind of style you were going to face because it was just an open tournament. I don't follow any of this stuff... but that just seems like it would be way more interesting.
Thats how I feel. I first watched the old UFC tournaments on VHS when I was about 10 years old. The mix of styles, backgrounds, and even weights of fighters made it so interesting to watch. Seeing Royce Gracie beat guys 100lbs heavier than him was pretty amazing.
Still completely missing my point regarding the context around the use of the term “lucky” in both of your previous quotes.... You should maybe look into who is quoted, and what they're referencing exactly.
Michael Page is arguably one of the brasher, disrespectful mixed martial artists on the planet. He's also one of the most decorated karateka in recent history. A point fighter raised by martial artist (both his parents are Lau Gar Kung Fu practitioners) that epitomizes everything you dislike about the sport of MMA. Hmmmm... Kind of a catch-22. Just further supporting the idea that generalization goes both ways.
I can list a HUGE number of traditional martial artists that were champions/Olympians in their disciplines that have competed in mixed martial arts if you'd like. Disciplines that you've mentioned as being innately respectful in nature, participating in a sport rife with "drug addicts, drunks, and pedophiles."
I am not a mixed martial artist, but I am a martial artist much like yourself. I've found that most people with a TMA background that bash MMA tend to be a bit self-conscious when it comes to the practicality of their own discipline.
We're obviously never going to see eye-to-eye, and that's fine. I will add that I followed Ronda Rousey during her career. I think she was great in showing the world that women can be just as (or more) exciting than men when it came to MMA. However, she always seemed brash in many instances. I often attributed this to simply the commercial side of her career. Much like wrestlers have to maintain an image, I figured RR had to maintain a "bitchy" image because it's (sadly) what most fans expected. However, I remember when she lost to Holm, dang... the reaction from many of her "rivals" was beyond ridiculous in my opinion. Just cemented my perception that there is little respect in the field. Also, maybe her attitude was not acting after all, which is also quite sad. So on the one hand, yes I respect her as an athlete, but not fully as a martial artist.
Or baseball when someone pimps a home run?
Hockey is like 25% cheapshots, so is soccer. I guess all those sports suck then.
Ill stick to those, everyone else can sip tea at the cricket field and enjoy a good polo match on TV.
Dude its entertainment. Lots of sports are nowadays. Trashtalking happens in everysport, have you ever seen football?
Or baseball when someone pimps a home run?
Hockey is like 25% cheapshots, so is soccer. I guess all those sports suck then.
Ill stick to those, everyone else can sip tea at the cricket field and enjoy a good polo match on TV.
Well, if you're saying that MMA is entertainment, then I agree with you. Which is my whole point from the beginning, that MMA is more entertainment than martial art in the traditional sense. Honestly, I'm not interested in professional sports. When I was younger I loved watching college basketball, that was the sport I followed. Nowadays, I have no interest in college basketball, which for the most part might as well be professional. Lots of trashtalking, even cheating (in classes, can't necessarily say for cheating in the games), I don't think it has the same vibe it used to. But you know, sports is trillions of dollars, so of course anything and everything that will make money (be it trashtalking or just bloody fights) is in the end all that really matters to many people.
MMA does have a lot of dumbasses, most of those guys are guys who got into the sport through wrestling, street fighting, or straight MMA gyms. But there are also many guys that got into the sport through traditional martial arts, and are super respectful. As was mentioned before many MMA champions are highly decorated in traditional martial arts, so I don't really see the argument. Even in traditional martial arts, there are dirty fighters, dirty schools, and dirty teachers. You see them fight dirty when nothing's on the line but a trophy made in China. If you put more of those guys in a tournament with a few grand on the line, more dirty fighters are obviously going to show their true colors. It isn't an MMA thing.
I'm a big traditional martial arts fan, and I've read a lot of Bruce Lee's books. One thing he makes abundantly clear, over and over, is that different schools and disciplines argue and cheat each other constantly. Lee's big fight with Wong Jack Man ended in both sides trash talking and saying they completely dominated the other party. Who knows who won that fight, one or the other is obviously a disrespectful liar.
The Gracie family would consider themselves traditional martial artists, and some of the most well known and respected today. But I myself wouldn't call them respectful. I tend to think of them as cheats, who rig the rules and have been caught from time to time cheap shoting opponents. The whole reason they do those dirty tactics though, is because of problems inherent to traditional martial arts. They are trying to keep their schools legacy at the top. Their self promoted greatest fighter in the family is Rickson who refuses to fight anyone that isn't a can. Something Lee observed as a major issue in martial arts as well. That's why Lee was one of the first true mixed.martial artists, he hated the BS in traditional martial arts, with every style claiming to be the best and only correct answer, like some kind of religion.