You can deny or accept that Star Fox 2 be entered as an official part of the SNES games set, but the fact remains that as of September 29th, 2017, Star Fox 2 is an official release by Nintendo, not as digital download but by physical media.
Physical media would suggest that the game is separate from the console/hardware that plays it. In this situation, it is not.
We don't count any other plug n plays as physical media, so we shouldn't count this in its current state.
Explain how plug-n-play systems are not physical releases.
Is the 1974 Pong Plug-n-play by Atari not a physical release? What about arcade cabinets?
A physical system playing physical games is a physical release. In such instance both the system itself and the game[s] are physical devices. A self contained physical system is also a physical device. Then you plug in physical controllers, cables, etc...
The system is a physical release, but not physical media (your words.)
Physical media can separate from the system. If it was like the NeoGeo MVS we might have a comparison. None of your examples are physical media, they're integrated media.
What you have with StarFox 2 is integrated media, not released separately by the publishing entity. That makes it separate from the physical media library of a system that people collect.
I don't think anyone disputes point A (physical object) or point B (not infringing copyright).
The disagreement is whether A + B = C. If it's 1 + 2 = 3, and SF2 is required for "the full set" then it follows that the other games on the mini are equally valid for inclusion. So by logic of the yes camp, you don't need to have a cartridge of Mario World, or any of the other 19 games, if you have the mini, to make the claim of having it all.* The no camp says it's not 1 2 3, SF2 is not original and there is no original, in the set [of cartridges released for the console.]
*not something I personally have any desire for. So I'm not saying this because it would somehow inconvenience me or make my shit lacking. That's just plain silly.
What is more important, to redefine the historical/contextual parameters of the SNES lifespan in order to include that exceptional SNES official release (making it less exceptional in a sense) into a set that was 'finite', or to consider it like the exception that it is? It is an officially release SNES game, there's no question here, but why would it need to be included in an empirical set that was already finite? What is so important about that inclusion?
Opinions are based on things that aren't based in fact. You're just wrong
Ad hominen
Any time an argument like this pops up some asshole throws around 9th grade logic class bullshit.
Its like, ooh I can Wikipedia logical fallacies and now my opinions are bulletproof.
GTFO with this garbage.
how about GTFO with opinion vs fact garbage in a thread that essentially has no real facts. nintendo has no word on whether star fox 2 "fits" with set collecting, it's purely down to people's opinions.
how about GTFO with opinion vs fact garbage in a thread that essentially has no real facts. nintendo has no word on whether star fox 2 "fits" with set collecting, it's purely down to people's opinions.
give me a break
Real Facts: Nintendo says The Super NES Classic Edition is not compatible with controllers or games from the original Super Nintendo Entertainment System.
Beyond that? Right, Nintendo has no word, don't give a shit about collecting, unless it means you buy what they're currently selling. So "the set" is defined by the people who care about collecting it, which you do not.
Nintendo wants us to buy VC games or whatever else contributes to their account, right now. Physical digital remaster emulated makes no difference, only what they can sell for how many total spacebucks.
Hey, Wii U Twilight Princess is a physical release officially sanctioned by Nintendo, therefore it counts toward "full set" of Wii games and also GameCube games, because Twilight Princess was made for both of those platforms! Talk about GTFO with nonsense garbage "give me a break" "end of story"!
the only relevant fact you listed is the snes classic isn't compatible with the original snes. the rest of what you just said is pretty much just noise.
another relevant fact you left out is star fox 2 is available for sale pre-installed on a physical, functional product. that should separate it from pure digital downloads on general purpose gaming consoles (wii, wii u etc).
still awfully sensitive about differing opinions though
I don't think anyone disputes point A (physical object) or point B (not infringing copyright).
The disagreement is whether A + B = C. If it's 1 + 2 = 3, and SF2 is required for "the full set" then it follows that the other games on the mini are equally valid for inclusion. So by logic of the yes camp, you don't need to have a cartridge of Mario World, or any of the other 19 games, if you have the mini, to make the claim of having it all.* The no camp says it's not 1 2 3, SF2 is not original and there is no original, in the set [of cartridges released for the console.]
*not something I personally have any desire for. So I'm not saying this because it would somehow inconvenience me or make my shit lacking. That's just plain silly.
Ya know, I think I'd actually say yeah, if you have the mini, you have the games. Now I think maybe we'll have to have a distinction between a Complete SNES Cart set (all of the carts), a Full Complete Set (all carts + SNES Classic,) and a Full game set (most carts and the SNES Classic using the digital games as carts.)
I dunno, I'm honestly open to those 3 options, in my mind, that makes sense.
EDIT: But as far as the Eathbound badge goes, I know it was kinda asked in jest, but that's gotta stick to cart only IMO
another relevant fact you left out is star fox 2 is available for sale pre-installed on a physical, functional product. that should separate it from pure digital downloads on general purpose gaming consoles (wii, wii u)
Troll level + +
Physical functional release:
Physical not download release:
If a game that isn't compatible with a Super Nintendo is needed to have a full Super Nintendo set, then either of these would count towards a full GameCube set.
Originally posted by: Koopa64
still awfully sensitive about differing opinions though
How do you do, Mr. Pot?
Do you want to hear reasons for disagreement or not? Oh, you don't, it's just noise.
the only relevant fact you listed is the snes classic isn't compatible with the original snes. the rest of what you just said is pretty much just noise.
another relevant fact you left out is star fox 2 is available for sale pre-installed on a physical, functional product. that should separate it from pure digital downloads on general purpose gaming consoles (wii, wii u etc).
still awfully sensitive about differing opinions though
Your trolling to single handedly keep this thread alive is getting old.
Consider this your only warning, next time will result in a 2 week vacay.
To everyone else, please argue pro or con on the topic at hand or this thread will get locked up.
I'd argue Star Fox 2 is technically compatible with the SNES, if you bother to rewire as FX chipped game and throw it on a spare chip just like the existing boots of the late beta. May not be official in that form, but it is official on the product they released as a SNES. I know it's splitting hairs, but from a non-heavily invested collectors stand point there is a truth to it.
I'd argue Star Fox 2 is technically compatible with the SNES, if you bother to rewire as FX chipped game and throw it on a spare chip just like the existing boots of the late beta. May not be official in that form, but it is official on the product they released as a SNES. I know it's splitting hairs, but from a non-heavily invested collectors stand point there is a truth to it.
From a collector's standpoint, though, it was never officially released on a SNES cartridge. I mean, are we supposed to jam the SNES classic in between StarFox and Star Trek DS9?
Many collectors will probably get the SNES classic, but it'll sit in its box next to the other SNES CIBs.
EDIT: But as far as the Eathbound badge goes, I know it was kinda asked in jest, but that's gotta stick to cart only IMO
Oh, haaaaiill no! Yiou want an Earthbound badge, you gotta include the Japanese only releases, including the Famicom and GBA variants.
It's only fair, since there are two games in the series never released in the west. Physical coolectors wanna be "cool" and collect what's relavent in their minds. Forget the awesome far east releases from the land of the rising sun...
I'd argue Star Fox 2 is technically compatible with the SNES, if you bother to rewire as FX chipped game and throw it on a spare chip just like the existing boots of the late beta. May not be official in that form, but it is official on the product they released as a SNES. I know it's splitting hairs, but from a non-heavily invested collectors stand point there is a truth to it.
I don't really think it does. There has been some fascinating points made throughout this thread certainly, and in the end, despite whatever justification someone has, it's all opinion. To me, if I can't buy the cart (that was licensed by Nintendo) to play on my SNES, I don't feel like it should count toward a licensed set of SNES carts.
I think the discussion could really get somewhere if Nintendo actually released licensed carts of Starfox 2.
I don't really think it does. There has been some fascinating points made throughout this thread certainly, and in the end, despite whatever justification someone has, it's all opinion. To me, if I can't buy the cart (that was licensed by Nintendo) to play on my SNES, I don't feel like it should count toward a licensed set of SNES carts.
I think the discussion could really get somewhere if Nintendo actually released licensed carts of Starfox 2.
I'd have to admit if Nintendo did even a limited run, very limited like the old silver or gold NES Nintendo world championship carts from the magazine/event in size for Star Fox 2 I'd be laughing at the irony of it all. That alone would make for a very interesting and amusing argument about it being in the set given it would be a Nintendo made ROM, on a Nintendo made cart, and released to the Nintendo loving market in some manner to be used on original hardware much like that reshelled street fighter II earlier this year. I think it would be a bit more dicey to try and call something Nintendo made as an excluded item.
I think that's what it comes down to. If Nintendo released it on a cart to play on the SNES, we could have the discussion on whether it could be part of the full SNES licensed set. As it stands, it's not even close. There's no official cartridge for this. Just pirates.
Could one at least agree that Star Fox 2 is an official licensed release, even if not technically provided on an SNES cart?
That I do agree with. It was an official, legitimate release. But just as Super Mario All-stars Wii edition doesn't belong in an SNES set, neither does this, imo. That's the closest comparison I can think of, it's an SNES rom in a different package. I wonder if that ROM has been extracted and put on a cart to see if there are any differences.
But anyway, for me, if you're collecting an SNES set, aka SNES carts, no this doesn't go with it. I bet not one person here who feel it belongs, actually collects SNES to build the full set.
Could one at least agree that Star Fox 2 is an official licensed release, even if not technically provided on an SNES cart?
That I do agree with. It was an official, legitimate release. But just as Super Mario All-stars Wii edition doesn't belong in an SNES set, neither does this, imo. That's the closest comparison I can think of, it's an SNES rom in a different package. I wonder if that ROM has been extracted and put on a cart to see if there are any differences. But anyway, for me, if you're collecting an SNES set, aka SNES carts, no this doesn't go with it. I bet not one person here who feel it belongs, actually collects SNES to build the full set.
I'm not into collecting full sets of mostly worthless games. Most systems about 10% of the library are excellent must have games, and on top of that maybe another 20% have some redeeming quality that make them worth owning. Of course the amount of shovelware varies per system, but there's enough filler content out there, and let's be honest, noone with a complete set of anything has time to play them all. Well maybe except for Pat's NES book where he literally reviews everything. But that's more academic research than recreation.
Comments
You can deny or accept that Star Fox 2 be entered as an official part of the SNES games set, but the fact remains that as of September 29th, 2017, Star Fox 2 is an official release by Nintendo, not as digital download but by physical media.
Physical media would suggest that the game is separate from the console/hardware that plays it. In this situation, it is not.
We don't count any other plug n plays as physical media, so we shouldn't count this in its current state.
Explain how plug-n-play systems are not physical releases.
Is the 1974 Pong Plug-n-play by Atari not a physical release? What about arcade cabinets?
A physical system playing physical games is a physical release. In such instance both the system itself and the game[s] are physical devices. A self contained physical system is also a physical device. Then you plug in physical controllers, cables, etc...
The system is a physical release, but not physical media (your words.)
Physical media can separate from the system. If it was like the NeoGeo MVS we might have a comparison. None of your examples are physical media, they're integrated media.
What you have with StarFox 2 is integrated media, not released separately by the publishing entity. That makes it separate from the physical media library of a system that people collect.
That's the distinction.
I don't think anyone disputes point A (physical object) or point B (not infringing copyright).
The disagreement is whether A + B = C. If it's 1 + 2 = 3, and SF2 is required for "the full set" then it follows that the other games on the mini are equally valid for inclusion. So by logic of the yes camp, you don't need to have a cartridge of Mario World, or any of the other 19 games, if you have the mini, to make the claim of having it all.* The no camp says it's not 1 2 3, SF2 is not original and there is no original, in the set [of cartridges released for the console.]
*not something I personally have any desire for. So I'm not saying this because it would somehow inconvenience me or make my shit lacking. That's just plain silly.
Opinions are based on things that aren't based in fact. You're just wrong
Ad hominen
Any time an argument like this pops up some asshole throws around 9th grade logic class bullshit.
Its like, ooh I can Wikipedia logical fallacies and now my opinions are bulletproof.
GTFO with this garbage.
Opinions are based on things that aren't based in fact. You're just wrong
Ad hominen
Any time an argument like this pops up some asshole throws around 9th grade logic class bullshit.
Its like, ooh I can Wikipedia logical fallacies and now my opinions are bulletproof.
GTFO with this garbage.
I'll take his ad hominen and raise you a non-sequitur. Full house beats two pair my friend.
>Look guys, I finished my snes collection!
>>No you didn't! your still missing the snes mini classic to have an 'official' complete snes collection, git gud asshole!
Also, since the SNES classic has Earthbound, does that mean everyone who has one gets the Earthbound badge?
Sure, I'm down for that!
Originally posted by: attakid101
Originally posted by: Koopa64
Originally posted by: guitarzombie
Opinions are based on things that aren't based in fact. You're just wrong
Ad hominen
Any time an argument like this pops up some asshole throws around 9th grade logic class bullshit.
Its like, ooh I can Wikipedia logical fallacies and now my opinions are bulletproof.
GTFO with this garbage.
Indeed, pulling out the logical fallacy card on a web forum is like talking in alexandrines at a convenience store, that's just out of place.
What is more important, to redefine the historical/contextual parameters of the SNES lifespan in order to include that exceptional SNES official release (making it less exceptional in a sense) into a set that was 'finite', or to consider it like the exception that it is? It is an officially release SNES game, there's no question here, but why would it need to be included in an empirical set that was already finite? What is so important about that inclusion?
Originally posted by: attakid101
Originally posted by: Koopa64
Originally posted by: guitarzombie
Opinions are based on things that aren't based in fact. You're just wrong
Ad hominen
Any time an argument like this pops up some asshole throws around 9th grade logic class bullshit.
Its like, ooh I can Wikipedia logical fallacies and now my opinions are bulletproof.
GTFO with this garbage.
how about GTFO with opinion vs fact garbage in a thread that essentially has no real facts. nintendo has no word on whether star fox 2 "fits" with set collecting, it's purely down to people's opinions.
give me a break
how about GTFO with opinion vs fact garbage in a thread that essentially has no real facts. nintendo has no word on whether star fox 2 "fits" with set collecting, it's purely down to people's opinions.
give me a break
Real Facts: Nintendo says The Super NES Classic Edition is not compatible with controllers or games from the original Super Nintendo Entertainment System.
Beyond that? Right, Nintendo has no word, don't give a shit about collecting, unless it means you buy what they're currently selling. So "the set" is defined by the people who care about collecting it, which you do not.
Nintendo wants us to buy VC games or whatever else contributes to their account, right now. Physical digital remaster emulated makes no difference, only what they can sell for how many total spacebucks.
Hey, Wii U Twilight Princess is a physical release officially sanctioned by Nintendo, therefore it counts toward "full set" of Wii games and also GameCube games, because Twilight Princess was made for both of those platforms! Talk about GTFO with nonsense garbage "give me a break" "end of story"!
another relevant fact you left out is star fox 2 is available for sale pre-installed on a physical, functional product. that should separate it from pure digital downloads on general purpose gaming consoles (wii, wii u etc).
still awfully sensitive about differing opinions though
I don't think anyone disputes point A (physical object) or point B (not infringing copyright).
The disagreement is whether A + B = C. If it's 1 + 2 = 3, and SF2 is required for "the full set" then it follows that the other games on the mini are equally valid for inclusion. So by logic of the yes camp, you don't need to have a cartridge of Mario World, or any of the other 19 games, if you have the mini, to make the claim of having it all.* The no camp says it's not 1 2 3, SF2 is not original and there is no original, in the set [of cartridges released for the console.]
*not something I personally have any desire for. So I'm not saying this because it would somehow inconvenience me or make my shit lacking. That's just plain silly.
Ya know, I think I'd actually say yeah, if you have the mini, you have the games. Now I think maybe we'll have to have a distinction between a Complete SNES Cart set (all of the carts), a Full Complete Set (all carts + SNES Classic,) and a Full game set (most carts and the SNES Classic using the digital games as carts.)
I dunno, I'm honestly open to those 3 options, in my mind, that makes sense.
EDIT: But as far as the Eathbound badge goes, I know it was kinda asked in jest, but that's gotta stick to cart only IMO
another relevant fact you left out is star fox 2 is available for sale pre-installed on a physical, functional product. that should separate it from pure digital downloads on general purpose gaming consoles (wii, wii u)
Troll level + +
Physical functional release:
Physical not download release:
If a game that isn't compatible with a Super Nintendo is needed to have a full Super Nintendo set, then either of these would count towards a full GameCube set.
still awfully sensitive about differing opinions though
How do you do, Mr. Pot?
Do you want to hear reasons for disagreement or not? Oh, you don't, it's just noise.
the only relevant fact you listed is the snes classic isn't compatible with the original snes. the rest of what you just said is pretty much just noise.
another relevant fact you left out is star fox 2 is available for sale pre-installed on a physical, functional product. that should separate it from pure digital downloads on general purpose gaming consoles (wii, wii u etc).
still awfully sensitive about differing opinions though
Your trolling to single handedly keep this thread alive is getting old.
Consider this your only warning, next time will result in a 2 week vacay.
To everyone else, please argue pro or con on the topic at hand or this thread will get locked up.
I'd argue Star Fox 2 is technically compatible with the SNES, if you bother to rewire as FX chipped game and throw it on a spare chip just like the existing boots of the late beta. May not be official in that form, but it is official on the product they released as a SNES. I know it's splitting hairs, but from a non-heavily invested collectors stand point there is a truth to it.
From a collector's standpoint, though, it was never officially released on a SNES cartridge. I mean, are we supposed to jam the SNES classic in between StarFox and Star Trek DS9?
Many collectors will probably get the SNES classic, but it'll sit in its box next to the other SNES CIBs.
Originally posted by: KAMIKAWA
EDIT: But as far as the Eathbound badge goes, I know it was kinda asked in jest, but that's gotta stick to cart only IMO
Oh, haaaaiill no! Yiou want an Earthbound badge, you gotta include the Japanese only releases, including the Famicom and GBA variants.
It's only fair, since there are two games in the series never released in the west. Physical coolectors wanna be "cool" and collect what's relavent in their minds. Forget the awesome far east releases from the land of the rising sun...
Originally posted by: MrWunderful
Your trolling to single handedly keep this thread alive is getting old.
He's not the only one. Stength in numbers, mhua-ha-ha...
Originally posted by: VmprHntrD
I'd argue Star Fox 2 is technically compatible with the SNES, if you bother to rewire as FX chipped game and throw it on a spare chip just like the existing boots of the late beta. May not be official in that form, but it is official on the product they released as a SNES. I know it's splitting hairs, but from a non-heavily invested collectors stand point there is a truth to it.
Thank you!
I think the discussion could really get somewhere if Nintendo actually released licensed carts of Starfox 2.
I don't really think it does. There has been some fascinating points made throughout this thread certainly, and in the end, despite whatever justification someone has, it's all opinion. To me, if I can't buy the cart (that was licensed by Nintendo) to play on my SNES, I don't feel like it should count toward a licensed set of SNES carts.
I think the discussion could really get somewhere if Nintendo actually released licensed carts of Starfox 2.
Lock it, Randy. You know you want to....
Could one at least agree that Star Fox 2 is an official licensed release, even if not technically provided on an SNES cart?
That I do agree with. It was an official, legitimate release. But just as Super Mario All-stars Wii edition doesn't belong in an SNES set, neither does this, imo. That's the closest comparison I can think of, it's an SNES rom in a different package. I wonder if that ROM has been extracted and put on a cart to see if there are any differences.
But anyway, for me, if you're collecting an SNES set, aka SNES carts, no this doesn't go with it. I bet not one person here who feel it belongs, actually collects SNES to build the full set.
Originally posted by: Kosmic StarDust
Could one at least agree that Star Fox 2 is an official licensed release, even if not technically provided on an SNES cart?
Of course it is man, that game has been officially released by Nintendo, there's no question there.
Could one at least agree that Star Fox 2 is an official licensed release, even if not technically provided on an SNES cart?
That I do agree with. It was an official, legitimate release. But just as Super Mario All-stars Wii edition doesn't belong in an SNES set, neither does this, imo. That's the closest comparison I can think of, it's an SNES rom in a different package. I wonder if that ROM has been extracted and put on a cart to see if there are any differences. But anyway, for me, if you're collecting an SNES set, aka SNES carts, no this doesn't go with it. I bet not one person here who feel it belongs, actually collects SNES to build the full set.
I'm not into collecting full sets of mostly worthless games. Most systems about 10% of the library are excellent must have games, and on top of that maybe another 20% have some redeeming quality that make them worth owning. Of course the amount of shovelware varies per system, but there's enough filler content out there, and let's be honest, noone with a complete set of anything has time to play them all. Well maybe except for Pat's NES book where he literally reviews everything. But that's more academic research than recreation.