Well this is a pisser! - Aladdin's Source Code Released
Interesting read, but a source code and art asset dump? Can't say I agree with this . . .
https://gamehistory.org/aladdin-source-code/
https://gamehistory.org/aladdin-source-code/
Comments
Glad to see stuff is happening in terms of preservation from the VGHF.
This is great, IMHO. I can't wait to read through the code.
looking at what is effectively a prototype: good
who cares?
Its not my intention to start a flame war, but source code and hard assets seem to infringe on the last bastion of ownership/pride for these creators. And yes, I truly believe there's a significant difference between source code and a work in progress prototype. In nearly all arguments for preservation, a source code dump is completely unnecessary. You should appreciate and preserve the art, not the screws or glue needed to build. It's also likely, a modern day game programmer wouldn't recreate the game based on how it was built. He'd have infinite options, could make it more efficient, and complete it in 1/3 of the time. So what's the point in releasing source code and diminishing the pride the developers had in keeping their secret sauce, secret?
I'm voicing my opinion on the matter and I'm OK if you disagree. I'd just appreciate it if you could take a moment to understand/respect this view from their perspective.
Still not sure what harm having the code available does. People looking at the source code do appreciate it... why else would they bother?
You've missed the point my friend. Try looking outward instead of inward.
"take a moment to understand/respect this view from their perspective."
There's a difference between infringing on copyright by publishing someone else' work as your own, vs tinkering with it to gain a better understanding of how it was made.
I would be flattered if someone liked my work enough to get into it that deep, and even make their own transformative work inspired by it.
Originally posted by: Guggles
I suspect many of us have never created anything and then had it dumped like this, so I'd ask that you take a moment to reflect from their perspective. I have friends in this industry, and regardless if it was 5 months, 50 years, or 500 years ago, their work is still relevant to them. Its art, its their efforts, its their passion. Because someone had access to it and dumped it without reason or without permission, it still doesn't make it right under the veil of preservation or history.
Its not my intention to start a flame war, but source code and hard assets seem to infringe on the last bastion of ownership/pride for these creators. And yes, I truly believe there's a significant difference between source code and a work in progress prototype. In nearly all arguments for preservation, a source code dump is completely unnecessary. You should appreciate and preserve the art, not the screws or glue needed to build. It's also likely, a modern day game programmer wouldn't recreate the game based on how it was built. He'd have infinite options, could make it more efficient, and complete it in 1/3 of the time. So what's the point in releasing source code and diminishing the pride the developers had in keeping their secret sauce, secret?
I'm voicing my opinion on the matter and I'm OK if you disagree. I'd just appreciate it if you could take a moment to understand/respect this view from their perspective.
tl;dr you don't care about historical preservation. why bother preserving anything then? let the old ways of building games be lost to the sands of time dag gum.
I guess we can't know for sure though, unless we hear from someone who worked on this.
Ps, I did not read the article so I may have assumed something incorrectly.
I mean, they shared some images and details, but the actual content, the source code, the design document, everything, is still private right?
I suspect many of us have never created anything and then had it dumped like this, so I'd ask that you take a moment to reflect from their perspective. I have friends in this industry, and regardless if it was 5 months, 50 years, or 500 years ago, their work is still relevant to them. Its art, its their efforts, its their passion. Because someone had access to it and dumped it without reason or without permission, it still doesn't make it right under the veil of preservation or history.
Its not my intention to start a flame war, but source code and hard assets seem to infringe on the last bastion of ownership/pride for these creators. And yes, I truly believe there's a significant difference between source code and a work in progress prototype. In nearly all arguments for preservation, a source code dump is completely unnecessary. You should appreciate and preserve the art, not the screws or glue needed to build. It's also likely, a modern day game programmer wouldn't recreate the game based on how it was built. He'd have infinite options, could make it more efficient, and complete it in 1/3 of the time. So what's the point in releasing source code and diminishing the pride the developers had in keeping their secret sauce, secret?
I'm voicing my opinion on the matter and I'm OK if you disagree. I'd just appreciate it if you could take a moment to understand/respect this view from their perspective.
So you also hate rom hacking too I suspect?
I do create things, for a living.
There's a difference between infringing on copyright by publishing someone else' work as your own, vs tinkering with it to gain a better understanding of how it was made.
I would be flattered if someone liked my work enough to get into it that deep, and even make their own transformative work inspired by it.
Sigh . . . You've missed the point my friend. Try looking outward instead of inward.
"take a moment to understand/respect this view from their perspective."
Again, this is about reflecting on the dumping of something (without permission) which has meaning to the creators. Not what it can do to help yourself, others, or to satiate a majority for their own meaningless curiosity.
Bert, as a creator yourself, if someone were to take the work you've done and without your permission (under the guise of "understanding how it was made" or because they were curious), are you saying you wouldn't feel a sense of loss? That somehow the curtain has been pulled and your Oz like magic is now simply common lever pulling? You create something, because your passionate about what you do and it instills a sense of pride and accomplishment. My dissappointment lies in seeing how that sense of pride and accomplishement was devalued and not by choice.
BTW -
"It is also often lawful to reverse-engineer an artifact or process as long as it is obtained legitimately. "
I didn't miss the point, I'm with Bert on this. I wish someone would take the time and dig into something I've done. If someone covered my music or tabbed it out for other people, etc... awesome. Someone gave a shit to examine what I did.
Again, you're making this about you. What you would do. Not about what was taken from the creators. Maybe they care, maybe they don't. I'm just voicing an opinion that I don't think it was necessary or right to give away the sacred cow. You beleive otherwise and that's fine to.
Originally posted by: Guggles
Again, you're making this about you. What you would do. Not about what was taken from the creators. Maybe they care, maybe they don't. I'm just voicing an opinion that I don't think it was necessary or right to give away the sacred cow. You beleive otherwise and that's fine to.
uhh... you told him to make it about himself
Originally posted by: Guggles
Bert, as a creator yourself, if someone were to take the work you've done and without your permission (under the guise of "understanding how it was made" or because they were curious), are you saying you wouldn't feel a sense of loss? That somehow the curtain has been pulled and your Oz like magic is now simply common lever pulling? You create something, because your passionate about what you do and it instills a sense of pride and accomplishment. My dissappointment lies in seeing how that sense of pride and accomplishement was devalued and not by choice.
I think you're kind of assuming though, and getting upset on behalf of the actual creators without actually knowing how they themselves feel. It's impossible to do as you say and "look outward" without knowing what the actual creators feel about this. Maybe everyone involved approves and you're looking at it negatively for no reason.
You're right. I shouldn't speak on behalf of others. However, as a creator and with developer friends who share similar feelings, I can easily empathize and was sharing that opinion.
My comments however, aren't completely without merit. One of the creators made comment about the link which was then shared with me. From the gist, it appeared that there wasn't a Laissez faire attitude towards the issue, but rather dissappointment.
Bert, as a creator yourself, if someone were to take the work you've done and without your permission (under the guise of "understanding how it was made" or because they were curious), are you saying you wouldn't feel a sense of loss? That somehow the curtain has been pulled and your Oz like magic is now simply common lever pulling? You create something, because your passionate about what you do and it instills a sense of pride and accomplishment. My dissappointment lies in seeing how that sense of pride and accomplishement was devalued and not by choice.
Well, no, I wouldn't. I would feel a sense of accomplishment. If I create stuff that isn't worth a closer look, I'm not pushing myself, or my medium. Sharing, analysing, learning; that's how we evolve and get better. We need to learn, as a society, to work as a team, not for ourselves.
What if someone came up with a way to cure cancer, but died before fully fleshing it out. Should that knowledge be lost? You don't think it's for the better for others to continue that path to see if there was something there?
If I never took inspiration from anyone else, I would never get better, or be where I am today.
The copyright on this expired long ago, releasing the source code and assets at this point wouldn't be illegal in any way.
the copyright is valid for at least another several decades. you shouldn't post things if you have no idea what you're talking about.