So if a band release a demo on CD but it's not on vinyl album like the rest of their back catalog.
So the back in the day releases (12" vinyl LP albums) comprise the full body of music for the band, yet a 3" Mini CD demo of an unreleased track from back in the day doesn't count because it's a different form factor.
That's as silly as detractors calling the SNES Mini not a release because the form factor (cart vs mini console or Vinyl vs CD) isn't the same and requires a different player?
Well, I'm not gonna say I don't see where you're coming from, 'cause I do. Yah sure, SuperNintendoMiniClassic Featuring Starfox 2 counts, as a part of "Every Starfox Thing Ever Sold Mass Market", as I said. However to answer the OP for the zillionth time, it does NOT need to be included in order to have a full SNES set. Just like a trade paperback collecting some issues of a comic book and including a previously unpublished story wouldn't be required to say you have every issue of the comic book.
And yeah, I got the alternate title screen variation of Stadium Events included on the 3-in-1 Mario so gimme mah badge already!
This guy considers WCTM to be the same thing as SE. So operating from a pure gameplay perspective. Completely disregarding what I'm pretty sure is established opinion of the collector community. Therefore has opinion of zero bearing to what is required therein.
Unreleased games getting out to the public concerns gamers moreso than collectors, IMO. Speaking as someone more concerned with the former than the latter. (With no interest or concern in "full sets" of anything for their own sake, so defining those as requiring the little Nintendo doesn't affect me at all. I have no horse in this race but this is my opinion as a collector/gamer/fan in general.)
It's like an unreleased demo from a band. Or a sketchbook from a comic book artist in the back of a tpb. Yes, duh, fans will be interested. But not necessary to say one has every album or every issue.
I consider this "release" of StarFox 2, in a compilation, as supplemental material and a "rarity". Required as "every Starfox thing ever"? OK. But not really akin to any other "full set" ever. As I said earlier, this is a gray area.
But I think you can't define this item as required for a list of items published for a particular format and at the same time doesn't work on that format. The fact of it theoretically working on a software version of that hardware format is interesting but irrelevant.
So if an old band release an old demo on CD but it's not on vinyl album like the rest of their back catalog. For the moment humor me for a bit and pretend vinyl isn't making a comeback and has been dead as a format for some time.
So the back in the day releases (12" vinyl LP albums) comprise the full body of music for the band, yet a CD greatest hits disc with an unreleased bonus demo track from back in the day doesn't count because it's a different form factor.
The one new song on the CD has a modern release date but isn't included in the body of the band's work because no 7" vinyl 45 of the new track was pressed, so vinyl collectors can't play it on their turntables?
That's how silly it is with detractors calling the SNES Mini's Starfox 2 not a legit SNES release because the form factor (cart vs mini console or Vinyl vs CD) isn't the same, and requires a different telivision set?
I dont think people are saying its not a legit snes release. They are saying it would not count as a game that makes a complete snes set just like a band releasing a track on cd would not need to be included in a full vinyl set from said band.
I find it hard to argue against that last post there by Kosmic as it's a good point I hadn't thought of. Games aren't any more special than music, movies and the rest. Getting down to formatting something and time frame are physically put on as a reason to say it's not something doesn't make sense.
Perfect example with music, Michael Jackson. Dead for years, but his legacy lives on like the SNES. Years after his death the family will be digging into his library of finished unreleased works and placing them on CD/MP3 (whatever) and people will scoop them up with glee. Do you really feel people on some music forum will want to argue it's not real Michael Jackson music or part of his set(library) because he's both dead and not on a format present when he was breathing?
It's a SNES game like it or not, it's just not on a 1990s style board/chip and cartridge is all but it's as much a SNES game as any other. No line in the sand is really there, it's not something after market like a Piko product which Nintendo won't give a license to. And yes I'm not ignoring the earlier comment about Mario Allstars or the GBA conversions of the same stuff. They're both and fit in both worlds as such just as much as their originals do on the NES too. Shoot even SMAS got a double release with a second very limited time cart having World too. The thing is in every single case there depending on the format the code is made for that system.
Unreleased games getting out to the public concerns gamers moreso than collectors, IMO. Speaking as someone more concerned with the former than the latter. (With no interest or concern in "full sets" of anything for their own sake, so defining those as requiring the little Nintendo doesn't affect me at all. I have no horse in this race but this is my opinion as a collector/gamer/fan in general.)
It's like an unreleased demo from a band. Or a sketchbook from a comic book artist in the back of a tpb. Yes, duh, fans will be interested. But not necessary to say one has every album or every issue.
I consider this "release" of StarFox 2, in a compilation, as supplemental material and a "rarity". Required as "every Starfox thing ever"? OK. But not really akin to any other "full set" ever. As I said earlier, this is a gray area.
But I think you can't define this item as required for a list of items published for a particular format and at the same time doesn't work on that format. The fact of it theoretically working on a software version of that hardware format is interesting but irrelevant.
So if an old band release an old demo on CD but it's not on vinyl album like the rest of their back catalog. For the moment humor me for a bit and pretend vinyl isn't making a comeback and has been dead as a format for some time.
So the back in the day releases (12" vinyl LP albums) comprise the full body of music for the band, yet a CD greatest hits disc with an unreleased bonus demo track from back in the day doesn't count because it's a different form factor.
The one new song on the CD has a modern release date but isn't included in the body of the band's work because no 7" vinyl 45 of the new track was pressed, so vinyl collectors can't play it on their turntables?
That's how silly it is with detractors calling the SNES Mini's Starfox 2 not a legit SNES release because the form factor (cart vs mini console or Vinyl vs CD) isn't the same, and requires a different telivision set?
No, that's not quite how this relates. Even if you got the rom out, it won't run on a standard snes cart, and there's no new SFX chips. And if the person collecting in your statement collected 12" vinyl, then yeah, they don't need it. Heck, it's not an album, they would have all the albums. That is a single, and thus not needed for an album collection. If you collected everything from the band, then yeah. Like, how many Ozzy fans have playing with spiders or party with the animals? Thoese aren't required to have when you own all Ozzy albums.
This is like saying a DVD Loonytoons collector needs a copy of "The Golden Age of Loonytoons" on laserdisc since that was the only way they were released. We're talking a complete set of SNES carts, this thing here is a diffrent media format; it is not a snes cart, and snes carts are what people mean when they say snes set; they do not mean extra hardware. You do not need a snes and snes mini for a snes set, but it's nice to have. Likewise, you don't need the atari nes-on-a-chip ported games for a complete nes set, but they are nes games.
I find it hard to argue against that last post there by Kosmic as it's a good point I hadn't thought of. Games aren't any more special than music, movies and the rest. Getting down to formatting something and time frame are physically put on as a reason to say it's not something doesn't make sense.
Perfect example with music, Michael Jackson. Dead for years, but his legacy lives on like the SNES. Years after his death the family will be digging into his library of finished unreleased works and placing them on CD/MP3 (whatever) and people will scoop them up with glee. Do you really feel people on some music forum will want to argue it's not real Michael Jackson music or part of his set(library) because he's both dead and not on a format present when he was breathing?
It's a SNES game like it or not, it's just not on a 1990s style board/chip and cartridge is all but it's as much a SNES game as any other. No line in the sand is really there, it's not something after market like a Piko product which Nintendo won't give a license to. And yes I'm not ignoring the earlier comment about Mario Allstars or the GBA conversions of the same stuff. They're both and fit in both worlds as such just as much as their originals do on the NES too. Shoot even SMAS got a double release with a second very limited time cart having World too. The thing is in every single case there depending on the format the code is made for that system.
We're not collecting snes games, we're collecting snes CARTS, the physical things.
If you collect just the game, not the carts, then roms and virtual consoles count. Do you count roms and virtual consoles in your collection?
I'm discussing physical media which it is built into that system, no I don't just count roms. The SNES Mini is a physical item with the games on a chip there. Sure ROMs could be seen the same way because they can be tossed on a chip (SD media) too, but that's different as it's intended as re-writeable storage. While the SNES Mini can be easily hacked it wasn't intended as a flash kit.
I'm discussing physical media which it is built into that system, no I don't just count roms. The SNES Mini is a physical item with the games on a chip there. Sure ROMs could be seen the same way because they can be tossed on a chip (SD media) too, but that's different as it's intended as re-writeable storage. While the SNES Mini can be easily hacked it wasn't intended as a flash kit.
So, you're saying because they snipped off the write port on a snes mini, it converted it from roms to part of a snes set?
What if nintendo released a special Wii with the entire snes set on it. But because the snes set was complete, they burned it to a rom so you couldn't delete them. Would that count as a snes item, and if so, would it replace the games, or suplement it.
We're collecting SNES carts, not the games themselves, as there's other ways to get the games. That thing is not a snes cart.
You're being obtuse on purpose to try and make your point. Also you're living in a realm of what ifs to make a weak point, let's stick to reality. It doesn't change Star Fox 2 is a SNES game, like it or not, it just got a very late release on a closed system than a singular closed cart in the 90s. That's where I stand on it, read into it as you will.
I cannot play Star Fox 2 on my original release SNES that I got in 1991 with any officially released Nintendo Product. Therefore, it is not part of the SNES Full Set. Star Fox 2 has never been released on the Super Nintendo Entertainment system. Ever. It was released on the SNES Classic Edition which is a completely different hardware system altogether.
I just can't fathom the logic behind saying that the release of Star Fox 2 on the SNES Classic Edition means that a separate console is required in order to have a full SNES set. That's like saying that you must have a copy of Final Fantasy 7 on the PS1 in order to have a full N64 set since FF7 started out as an N64 title but was later released on the PS1.
You're being obtuse on purpose to try and make your point. Also you're living in a realm of what ifs to make a weak point, let's stick to reality. It doesn't change Star Fox 2 is a SNES game, like it or not, it just got a very late release on a closed system than a singular closed cart in the 90s. That's where I stand on it, read into it as you will.
First, please quote people when you talk directly to them, so they know you're talking to them. Second, you're bit a bit of a dick... so I guess I don't have to be as civil.
What do you think most people mean when they say they have a snes set, the games, or the physical carts? For most of us, we mean the physical carts, so if you mean something other than what the majority mean, then you can't use terms used by the majority that mean something else.
There is no such thing as a Star Fox 2 snes cart. The only offical hardware it was released for was an arm-based CPU. Hackers can move it to the snes hardware, but it was never offically released ON A SNES CART. If it was not released on the snes, as a cart, how can it be a requrement for owning every snes cart?
And as for the "You're being obtuse on purpose to try and make your point. Also you're living in a realm of what ifs to make a weak point, let's stick to reality." BS, try thinking about my point a bit rather than just insulting me, it's called a "thought experiment". Do you know the history of the Atari games in question? If not, then ask about them. If so, other than being licensed\unlicensed, what's the diffrence? Using your logic, shouldn't they count as an unlicensed game, just like the tengen ones? Asking "Ifs" for situations like this is how you generally have to figure out classifications of things on the fringe. "If A is sorted into class 1, and B is class 2, with if C had these properties of A and these of B?" The questions I ask are EXACTLY how we need to approch this, not just going by what we feel is right without thinking in-depth.
As I was reading through this thread, I began to think about something. We all agree that the game is a period piece, and also that it is an official Nintendo release (now, due to the SNES Classic). People argue about whether it counts for a full set or not, due to the medium on which it plays. Although I personally draw my line at plug n play machines, the analogy to music formats struck a chord with me, and it got me thinking about something.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it okay for one to make a single backup of a game, for personal usage? I'm not talking about downloading a rom from a site, owning the cartridge, and calling it a day (the rom from the site did not come from your game cart, hence it isn't a backup of your game), rather dumping the game yourself and having a personal backup of it. So wouldn't a way around the medium be to dump the game off of your SNES Classic, slap it onto a repro cart, and then stick it in your library? It almost reminds me of how the homebrew release of Mr Splash was handled for Famicom. Just do this and problem solved.
Regarding machines and timelines: this is a slippery slope. For instance:
Nintendo started releasing Famicom games in 1983, upwards to when, 1994 or 1995? But they continued to support the machine until 2003. All during this time (1995 - 2003), unlicensed makers were still producing games, and since Nintendo still supported the machine...well...I guess it is still within the time frame. But then even afterwards, after Nintendo stopped supporting the machine, companies were still producing original Famicom software, up until at least 2011, probably even now some companies do (like some of the original games on those 400 in 1 multicarts and stuff we see these days). So unlike the NES, with the Famicom, there never really was a large "gap" period where software wasn't being developed, honestly it could be considered a machine that never died. My point of saying this is just to point out that discussing and using the lifetime of a system to determine these things has its limitations as well.
That makes it sound like it would be ok, but the problem is, console games are not considered computer software in the eyes of the law. Computer software is not allowed to be rented, yet we know we're clearly able to rent console games. https://www.copyright.gov/reports/software_ren.html covers the software rental It's section F that gets around this in the rental:
"Finally, the software publishers encouraged the Office to review
the denial of rental rights to computer programs "embodied in or used in connection with a limited purpose computer that is designed for playing video games and may be designed for other purposes."
Because of this bit, there is no real court cases that clearly say you can or cannot backup console software. It most likely would be allowed, but as far as I know, it's never been tried in court. So it will most likely be accepted as the "space shifting" part of laws, but there is no law that explicitly allows you to back this up without wiggle room.
And yet, I bet they wouldn't care if someone said they had a complete SMS set, but only owned a single master system (Meaning they do not have a copy of all the built in games)
Cause you totally need snail maze for a complete set.....
And yet, I bet they wouldn't care if someone said they had a complete SMS set, but only owned a single master system (Meaning they do not have a copy of all the built in games)
Cause you totally need snail maze for a complete set.....
Yeah just stick the master system with the S's on your shelf. Thats what I'm saying, people collect carts not games. Dont know why this is a difficult concept to grasp.
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
Yeah just stick the master system with the S's on your shelf. Thats what I'm saying, people collect carts not games. Dont know why this is a difficult concept to grasp.
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
Who cares though, both sides have gone back and forth and given their reasoning for 300 posts now, it is just getting silly at this point. Neither side is budging which is fine, and nobody needs to be converted, so why argue ad nauseum.
And yet, I bet they wouldn't care if someone said they had a complete SMS set, but only owned a single master system (Meaning they do not have a copy of all the built in games)
Cause you totally need snail maze for a complete set.....
That's actually a really good point, lol. No one considers that as required for a full set (though mine has it). That seems silly.
But even that makes more sense than Star Fox 2 being required because at least Snail Maze was released on an SMS. The SNES Classic is not an SNES, they are different systems.
I cannot play Star Fox 2 on my original release SNES that I got in 1991 with any officially released Nintendo Product.
No because they included a nice little replica of the original system with built in games becasue the average joe does not use and maintain vintage hardware. For a new commercially released game, it would be silly to release it on a dead format that hasn't been marketed in 20 years. So Nintendo threw out a bone and provided a mini console to play the games for you in case you don't have the original console laying around. The ROM is intact within the SNES Classic Mini and has in fact been dumped and extracted. This is the exact same data that could have been dumped from a commercial game cart had the game been released 20 years ago.
So the fact it currently resides on a 3.3V flash chip in an embedded system as opposed to a 5V mask ROM inside a custom removable housing, does not affect the gameplay or how the user interacts with it. The experience of playing is the same.
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS! GAH!
stop being so obtuse
Did you just call me a triangle? You hexagon!
You're a right triangle in my eyes
Circles are redundant, lines know no bounds, triangles are odd fellows, and squares are common folk. I prefer to be classified as a pentagon, thank you very much! A bit obtuse yes, but unlike hexagons, no matter how hard you try to make me conform, I will not tessalate. Nevermind the fact my hypotenuse is also the golden ratio...
I cannot play Star Fox 2 on my original release SNES that I got in 1991 with any officially released Nintendo Product.
No because they included a nice little replica of the original system with built in games becasue the average joe does not use and maintain vintage hardware. For a new commercially released game, it would be silly to release it on a dead format that hasn't been marketed in 20 years. So Nintendo threw out a bone and provided a mini console to play the games for you in case you don't have the original console laying around. The ROM is intact within the SNES Classic Mini and has in fact been dumped and extracted. This is the exact same data that could have been dumped from a commercial game cart had the game been released 20 years ago.
So the fact it currently resides on a 3.3V flash chip in an embedded system as opposed to a 5V mask ROM inside a custom removable housing, does not affect the gameplay or how the user interacts with it. The experience of playing is the same.
And the fact that a movie is stored on 1.5 ips tape vs a .8 ips tape is the same actual movie, doesn't mean that someone collecting betamax can swap in a VHS of a movie and still claim to be a betamax collector.
If it was the actual data of the game that mattered, than roms and virtual console releases would count.
And again, I'll go back to my Atari question. For the first atari flashback, they used a NES-on-a-chip, and ported the atari games to it. If star-fox 2 counts, then do you have a logical reason to exclude these atari games in the unlicensed nes set?
And likewise, is the snail game part of the SMS set?
And again, I'll go back to my Atari question. For the first atari flashback, they used a NES-on-a-chip, and ported the atari games to it. If star-fox 2 counts, then do you have a logical reason to exclude these atari games in the unlicensed nes set?
Flashback 2 used and Atari-on-a-chip to run code that could be run natively on an Atari. The NES games on the FB1 were junk and you know this, and don't count for squat, certainly not as legit Atari games. And yep, the built in SMS games count!
First, please quote people when you talk directly to them, so they know you're talking to them. Second, you're bit a bit of a dick... so I guess I don't have to be as civil.
What do you think most people mean when they say they have a snes set, the games, or the physical carts? For most of us, we mean the physical carts, so if you mean something other than what the majority mean, then you can't use terms used by the majority that mean something else.
There is no such thing as a Star Fox 2 snes cart. The only offical hardware it was released for was an arm-based CPU. Hackers can move it to the snes hardware, but it was never offically released ON A SNES CART. If it was not released on the snes, as a cart, how can it be a requrement for owning every snes cart?
I didn't agree with you and back down so therefore I'm a dick. I can live with that. I'm discussing games, that it is a SNES game, that's it. I don't care about the collector angle to make things easier or worse to collect a set. I know how that can set people off reading the history here over Sachen games among others. You're assuming a lot as I don't recall ever saying specifically it had to be part of a cart set. I argued against people calling it not a SNES game and that it could work on a cart in a real system if applied to one since it's legit licensed SNES code intended for such things originally. I don't even know why you brought up atari I wasn't even discussing that. Typically I avoid most things atari as it never interested me outside of the arcade.
The quoting I tend not to do because I find it just loads up the page a bit much that's why I don't do it.
The NES games on the FB1 were junk and you know this, and don't count for squat, certainly not as legit Atari games.
He didn't ask if they counted for Atari games, but if they counted for the NES set. They are NES ports, and are .nes files, and do run in NES emulators.
If they're junk and that's what excludes them, then Action 52, Cheetahmen II, most of the Color Dreams stuff, and pretty much most of the THQ lineup doesn't count, either.
Comments
So if a band release a demo on CD but it's not on vinyl album like the rest of their back catalog.
So the back in the day releases (12" vinyl LP albums) comprise the full body of music for the band, yet a 3" Mini CD demo of an unreleased track from back in the day doesn't count because it's a different form factor.
That's as silly as detractors calling the SNES Mini not a release because the form factor (cart vs mini console or Vinyl vs CD) isn't the same and requires a different player?
Well, I'm not gonna say I don't see where you're coming from, 'cause I do. Yah sure, SuperNintendoMiniClassic Featuring Starfox 2 counts, as a part of "Every Starfox Thing Ever Sold Mass Market", as I said. However to answer the OP for the zillionth time, it does NOT need to be included in order to have a full SNES set. Just like a trade paperback collecting some issues of a comic book and including a previously unpublished story wouldn't be required to say you have every issue of the comic book.
And yeah, I got the alternate title screen variation of Stadium Events included on the 3-in-1 Mario so gimme mah badge already!
This guy considers WCTM to be the same thing as SE. So operating from a pure gameplay perspective. Completely disregarding what I'm pretty sure is established opinion of the collector community. Therefore has opinion of zero bearing to what is required therein.
Unreleased games getting out to the public concerns gamers moreso than collectors, IMO. Speaking as someone more concerned with the former than the latter. (With no interest or concern in "full sets" of anything for their own sake, so defining those as requiring the little Nintendo doesn't affect me at all. I have no horse in this race but this is my opinion as a collector/gamer/fan in general.)
It's like an unreleased demo from a band. Or a sketchbook from a comic book artist in the back of a tpb. Yes, duh, fans will be interested. But not necessary to say one has every album or every issue.
I consider this "release" of StarFox 2, in a compilation, as supplemental material and a "rarity". Required as "every Starfox thing ever"? OK. But not really akin to any other "full set" ever. As I said earlier, this is a gray area.
But I think you can't define this item as required for a list of items published for a particular format and at the same time doesn't work on that format. The fact of it theoretically working on a software version of that hardware format is interesting but irrelevant.
So if an old band release an old demo on CD but it's not on vinyl album like the rest of their back catalog. For the moment humor me for a bit and pretend vinyl isn't making a comeback and has been dead as a format for some time.
So the back in the day releases (12" vinyl LP albums) comprise the full body of music for the band, yet a CD greatest hits disc with an unreleased bonus demo track from back in the day doesn't count because it's a different form factor.
The one new song on the CD has a modern release date but isn't included in the body of the band's work because no 7" vinyl 45 of the new track was pressed, so vinyl collectors can't play it on their turntables?
That's how silly it is with detractors calling the SNES Mini's Starfox 2 not a legit SNES release because the form factor (cart vs mini console or Vinyl vs CD) isn't the same, and requires a different telivision set?
I dont think people are saying its not a legit snes release. They are saying it would not count as a game that makes a complete snes set just like a band releasing a track on cd would not need to be included in a full vinyl set from said band.
Perfect example with music, Michael Jackson. Dead for years, but his legacy lives on like the SNES. Years after his death the family will be digging into his library of finished unreleased works and placing them on CD/MP3 (whatever) and people will scoop them up with glee. Do you really feel people on some music forum will want to argue it's not real Michael Jackson music or part of his set(library) because he's both dead and not on a format present when he was breathing?
It's a SNES game like it or not, it's just not on a 1990s style board/chip and cartridge is all but it's as much a SNES game as any other. No line in the sand is really there, it's not something after market like a Piko product which Nintendo won't give a license to. And yes I'm not ignoring the earlier comment about Mario Allstars or the GBA conversions of the same stuff. They're both and fit in both worlds as such just as much as their originals do on the NES too. Shoot even SMAS got a double release with a second very limited time cart having World too. The thing is in every single case there depending on the format the code is made for that system.
Unreleased games getting out to the public concerns gamers moreso than collectors, IMO. Speaking as someone more concerned with the former than the latter. (With no interest or concern in "full sets" of anything for their own sake, so defining those as requiring the little Nintendo doesn't affect me at all. I have no horse in this race but this is my opinion as a collector/gamer/fan in general.)
It's like an unreleased demo from a band. Or a sketchbook from a comic book artist in the back of a tpb. Yes, duh, fans will be interested. But not necessary to say one has every album or every issue.
I consider this "release" of StarFox 2, in a compilation, as supplemental material and a "rarity". Required as "every Starfox thing ever"? OK. But not really akin to any other "full set" ever. As I said earlier, this is a gray area.
But I think you can't define this item as required for a list of items published for a particular format and at the same time doesn't work on that format. The fact of it theoretically working on a software version of that hardware format is interesting but irrelevant.
So if an old band release an old demo on CD but it's not on vinyl album like the rest of their back catalog. For the moment humor me for a bit and pretend vinyl isn't making a comeback and has been dead as a format for some time.
So the back in the day releases (12" vinyl LP albums) comprise the full body of music for the band, yet a CD greatest hits disc with an unreleased bonus demo track from back in the day doesn't count because it's a different form factor.
The one new song on the CD has a modern release date but isn't included in the body of the band's work because no 7" vinyl 45 of the new track was pressed, so vinyl collectors can't play it on their turntables?
That's how silly it is with detractors calling the SNES Mini's Starfox 2 not a legit SNES release because the form factor (cart vs mini console or Vinyl vs CD) isn't the same, and requires a different telivision set?
No, that's not quite how this relates. Even if you got the rom out, it won't run on a standard snes cart, and there's no new SFX chips. And if the person collecting in your statement collected 12" vinyl, then yeah, they don't need it. Heck, it's not an album, they would have all the albums. That is a single, and thus not needed for an album collection. If you collected everything from the band, then yeah. Like, how many Ozzy fans have playing with spiders or party with the animals? Thoese aren't required to have when you own all Ozzy albums.
This is like saying a DVD Loonytoons collector needs a copy of "The Golden Age of Loonytoons" on laserdisc since that was the only way they were released. We're talking a complete set of SNES carts, this thing here is a diffrent media format; it is not a snes cart, and snes carts are what people mean when they say snes set; they do not mean extra hardware. You do not need a snes and snes mini for a snes set, but it's nice to have. Likewise, you don't need the atari nes-on-a-chip ported games for a complete nes set, but they are nes games.
I find it hard to argue against that last post there by Kosmic as it's a good point I hadn't thought of. Games aren't any more special than music, movies and the rest. Getting down to formatting something and time frame are physically put on as a reason to say it's not something doesn't make sense.
Perfect example with music, Michael Jackson. Dead for years, but his legacy lives on like the SNES. Years after his death the family will be digging into his library of finished unreleased works and placing them on CD/MP3 (whatever) and people will scoop them up with glee. Do you really feel people on some music forum will want to argue it's not real Michael Jackson music or part of his set(library) because he's both dead and not on a format present when he was breathing?
It's a SNES game like it or not, it's just not on a 1990s style board/chip and cartridge is all but it's as much a SNES game as any other. No line in the sand is really there, it's not something after market like a Piko product which Nintendo won't give a license to. And yes I'm not ignoring the earlier comment about Mario Allstars or the GBA conversions of the same stuff. They're both and fit in both worlds as such just as much as their originals do on the NES too. Shoot even SMAS got a double release with a second very limited time cart having World too. The thing is in every single case there depending on the format the code is made for that system.
We're not collecting snes games, we're collecting snes CARTS, the physical things.
If you collect just the game, not the carts, then roms and virtual consoles count. Do you count roms and virtual consoles in your collection?
I'm discussing physical media which it is built into that system, no I don't just count roms. The SNES Mini is a physical item with the games on a chip there. Sure ROMs could be seen the same way because they can be tossed on a chip (SD media) too, but that's different as it's intended as re-writeable storage. While the SNES Mini can be easily hacked it wasn't intended as a flash kit.
So, you're saying because they snipped off the write port on a snes mini, it converted it from roms to part of a snes set?
What if nintendo released a special Wii with the entire snes set on it. But because the snes set was complete, they burned it to a rom so you couldn't delete them. Would that count as a snes item, and if so, would it replace the games, or suplement it.
We're collecting SNES carts, not the games themselves, as there's other ways to get the games. That thing is not a snes cart.
I just can't fathom the logic behind saying that the release of Star Fox 2 on the SNES Classic Edition means that a separate console is required in order to have a full SNES set. That's like saying that you must have a copy of Final Fantasy 7 on the PS1 in order to have a full N64 set since FF7 started out as an N64 title but was later released on the PS1.
You're being obtuse on purpose to try and make your point. Also you're living in a realm of what ifs to make a weak point, let's stick to reality. It doesn't change Star Fox 2 is a SNES game, like it or not, it just got a very late release on a closed system than a singular closed cart in the 90s. That's where I stand on it, read into it as you will.
First, please quote people when you talk directly to them, so they know you're talking to them. Second, you're bit a bit of a dick... so I guess I don't have to be as civil.
What do you think most people mean when they say they have a snes set, the games, or the physical carts? For most of us, we mean the physical carts, so if you mean something other than what the majority mean, then you can't use terms used by the majority that mean something else.
There is no such thing as a Star Fox 2 snes cart. The only offical hardware it was released for was an arm-based CPU. Hackers can move it to the snes hardware, but it was never offically released ON A SNES CART. If it was not released on the snes, as a cart, how can it be a requrement for owning every snes cart?
And as for the "You're being obtuse on purpose to try and make your point. Also you're living in a realm of what ifs to make a weak point, let's stick to reality." BS, try thinking about my point a bit rather than just insulting me, it's called a "thought experiment". Do you know the history of the Atari games in question? If not, then ask about them. If so, other than being licensed\unlicensed, what's the diffrence? Using your logic, shouldn't they count as an unlicensed game, just like the tengen ones? Asking "Ifs" for situations like this is how you generally have to figure out classifications of things on the fringe. "If A is sorted into class 1, and B is class 2, with if C had these properties of A and these of B?" The questions I ask are EXACTLY how we need to approch this, not just going by what we feel is right without thinking in-depth.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it okay for one to make a single backup of a game, for personal usage? I'm not talking about downloading a rom from a site, owning the cartridge, and calling it a day (the rom from the site did not come from your game cart, hence it isn't a backup of your game), rather dumping the game yourself and having a personal backup of it. So wouldn't a way around the medium be to dump the game off of your SNES Classic, slap it onto a repro cart, and then stick it in your library? It almost reminds me of how the homebrew release of Mr Splash was handled for Famicom. Just do this and problem solved.
Regarding machines and timelines: this is a slippery slope. For instance:
Nintendo started releasing Famicom games in 1983, upwards to when, 1994 or 1995? But they continued to support the machine until 2003. All during this time (1995 - 2003), unlicensed makers were still producing games, and since Nintendo still supported the machine...well...I guess it is still within the time frame. But then even afterwards, after Nintendo stopped supporting the machine, companies were still producing original Famicom software, up until at least 2011, probably even now some companies do (like some of the original games on those 400 in 1 multicarts and stuff we see these days). So unlike the NES, with the Famicom, there never really was a large "gap" period where software wasn't being developed, honestly it could be considered a machine that never died. My point of saying this is just to point out that discussing and using the lifetime of a system to determine these things has its limitations as well.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it okay for one to make a single backup of a game, for personal usage?
In the US, this is actually a bit of a misconception. You are allowed to have one archived copy of computer software, https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html
That makes it sound like it would be ok, but the problem is, console games are not considered computer software in the eyes of the law. Computer software is not allowed to be rented, yet we know we're clearly able to rent console games. https://www.copyright.gov/reports/software_ren.html covers the software rental It's section F that gets around this in the rental:
"Finally, the software publishers encouraged the Office to review Because of this bit, there is no real court cases that clearly say you can or cannot backup console software. It most likely would be allowed, but as far as I know, it's never been tried in court. So it will most likely be accepted as the "space shifting" part of laws, but there is no law that explicitly allows you to back this up without wiggle room.
are people still arguing about this?
And yet, I bet they wouldn't care if someone said they had a complete SMS set, but only owned a single master system (Meaning they do not have a copy of all the built in games)
Cause you totally need snail maze for a complete set.....
are people still arguing about this?
And yet, I bet they wouldn't care if someone said they had a complete SMS set, but only owned a single master system (Meaning they do not have a copy of all the built in games)
Cause you totally need snail maze for a complete set.....
Yeah just stick the master system with the S's on your shelf. Thats what I'm saying, people collect carts not games. Dont know why this is a difficult concept to grasp.
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
Yeah just stick the master system with the S's on your shelf. Thats what I'm saying, people collect carts not games. Dont know why this is a difficult concept to grasp.
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
Who cares though, both sides have gone back and forth and given their reasoning for 300 posts now, it is just getting silly at this point. Neither side is budging which is fine, and nobody needs to be converted, so why argue ad nauseum.
Let people classify is however they want.
are people still arguing about this?
And yet, I bet they wouldn't care if someone said they had a complete SMS set, but only owned a single master system (Meaning they do not have a copy of all the built in games)
Cause you totally need snail maze for a complete set.....
That's actually a really good point, lol. No one considers that as required for a full set (though mine has it). That seems silly.
But even that makes more sense than Star Fox 2 being required because at least Snail Maze was released on an SMS. The SNES Classic is not an SNES, they are different systems.
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS! GAH!
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS! GAH!
stop being so obtuse
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS! GAH!
stop being so obtuse
Did you just call me a triangle? You hexagon!
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS! GAH!
stop being so obtuse
Did you just call me a triangle? You hexagon!
You're a right triangle in my eyes
I cannot play Star Fox 2 on my original release SNES that I got in 1991 with any officially released Nintendo Product.
No because they included a nice little replica of the original system with built in games becasue the average joe does not use and maintain vintage hardware. For a new commercially released game, it would be silly to release it on a dead format that hasn't been marketed in 20 years. So Nintendo threw out a bone and provided a mini console to play the games for you in case you don't have the original console laying around. The ROM is intact within the SNES Classic Mini and has in fact been dumped and extracted. This is the exact same data that could have been dumped from a commercial game cart had the game been released 20 years ago.
So the fact it currently resides on a 3.3V flash chip in an embedded system as opposed to a 5V mask ROM inside a custom removable housing, does not affect the gameplay or how the user interacts with it. The experience of playing is the same.
Do you need a PS4 with PT downloaded for a full PS4 set? No.
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS! GAH!
stop being so obtuse
Did you just call me a triangle? You hexagon!
You're a right triangle in my eyes
Circles are redundant, lines know no bounds, triangles are odd fellows, and squares are common folk. I prefer to be classified as a pentagon, thank you very much! A bit obtuse yes, but unlike hexagons, no matter how hard you try to make me conform, I will not tessalate. Nevermind the fact my hypotenuse is also the golden ratio...
I cannot play Star Fox 2 on my original release SNES that I got in 1991 with any officially released Nintendo Product.
No because they included a nice little replica of the original system with built in games becasue the average joe does not use and maintain vintage hardware. For a new commercially released game, it would be silly to release it on a dead format that hasn't been marketed in 20 years. So Nintendo threw out a bone and provided a mini console to play the games for you in case you don't have the original console laying around. The ROM is intact within the SNES Classic Mini and has in fact been dumped and extracted. This is the exact same data that could have been dumped from a commercial game cart had the game been released 20 years ago.
So the fact it currently resides on a 3.3V flash chip in an embedded system as opposed to a 5V mask ROM inside a custom removable housing, does not affect the gameplay or how the user interacts with it. The experience of playing is the same.
And the fact that a movie is stored on 1.5 ips tape vs a .8 ips tape is the same actual movie, doesn't mean that someone collecting betamax can swap in a VHS of a movie and still claim to be a betamax collector.
If it was the actual data of the game that mattered, than roms and virtual console releases would count.
And again, I'll go back to my Atari question. For the first atari flashback, they used a NES-on-a-chip, and ported the atari games to it. If star-fox 2 counts, then do you have a logical reason to exclude these atari games in the unlicensed nes set?
And likewise, is the snail game part of the SMS set?
And again, I'll go back to my Atari question. For the first atari flashback, they used a NES-on-a-chip, and ported the atari games to it. If star-fox 2 counts, then do you have a logical reason to exclude these atari games in the unlicensed nes set?
Flashback 2 used and Atari-on-a-chip to run code that could be run natively on an Atari. The NES games on the FB1 were junk and you know this, and don't count for squat, certainly not as legit Atari games. And yep, the built in SMS games count!
First, please quote people when you talk directly to them, so they know you're talking to them. Second, you're bit a bit of a dick... so I guess I don't have to be as civil.
What do you think most people mean when they say they have a snes set, the games, or the physical carts? For most of us, we mean the physical carts, so if you mean something other than what the majority mean, then you can't use terms used by the majority that mean something else.
There is no such thing as a Star Fox 2 snes cart. The only offical hardware it was released for was an arm-based CPU. Hackers can move it to the snes hardware, but it was never offically released ON A SNES CART. If it was not released on the snes, as a cart, how can it be a requrement for owning every snes cart?
I didn't agree with you and back down so therefore I'm a dick. I can live with that. I'm discussing games, that it is a SNES game, that's it. I don't care about the collector angle to make things easier or worse to collect a set. I know how that can set people off reading the history here over Sachen games among others. You're assuming a lot as I don't recall ever saying specifically it had to be part of a cart set. I argued against people calling it not a SNES game and that it could work on a cart in a real system if applied to one since it's legit licensed SNES code intended for such things originally. I don't even know why you brought up atari I wasn't even discussing that. Typically I avoid most things atari as it never interested me outside of the arcade.
The quoting I tend not to do because I find it just loads up the page a bit much that's why I don't do it.
The NES games on the FB1 were junk and you know this, and don't count for squat, certainly not as legit Atari games.
He didn't ask if they counted for Atari games, but if they counted for the NES set. They are NES ports, and are .nes files, and do run in NES emulators.
If they're junk and that's what excludes them, then Action 52, Cheetahmen II, most of the Color Dreams stuff, and pretty much most of the THQ lineup doesn't count, either.