"Hot shot pulling the trigger" shame on you, there's few people in the world willing to take on a profession where you truly help people... teachers nurses doctors paramedics, even fewer people willing to risk their lives to do it, fire fighters military gang counselors, and thankfully for you even fewer willing to help people, risk their lives, and face the ill informed judgemental people like yourself, and continue to soldier on despite it, because somebody has to...maybe he made a mistake and maybe he didnt either way it's sad you think its your place to armchair quarterback and assume you'd do any better, step up or shutup I think
There are certified cases of police blasting innocents like for example that black guy who got shot multiple times, in the back, after trying to run away from the cop. He had been stopped prior to that and was talking to the policeman over some shit he was supposed to get a fine over (car backlights broken or whatever it was). Just to make things clear: i'm not one of those uninformed BLM-fools ready to throw a tantrum over any police shooting either but unwarranted shootings do happen aswell.
You don't think in the end cops are merely human like the rest of us, susceptible to douchebaggery and corruption? In Mexico you have examples of municipalities where huge chunks of officers are on the take, even the majority in some cases. There are cartel members who even made a complete transfer and went over from being cops. Wake up and remove that pedestal: just because he holds this or that title it doesn't making him immune and it out of the question that he's a douche.
What matters is what THIS cop did...in THIS situation.
Yes ofcourse. I would say he was out of line because if you're far away and/or your orders not impactful enough then what purpose do they fucking serve in the first place? No proper cummunication towards the man for a chance to surrender and a "hands up" command that's evidently fragile and susceptible to error regardless of the compliance so the procedure is obviously shitty.
My take on it is that is that a perpetrator of a crime like that (murdering family) has a negative bias towards him that can have a "spill over"-effect that goes beyond posing an actual threat. A situation that would've not warranted a shooting becomes an "alright let's take him out and get this job done" type of mentality... no real need to fuck around with formalities when the "badguy" is identified.
I think that's what was at play here that the treshold was lowered.
"Hot shot pulling the trigger" shame on you, there's few people in the world willing to take on a profession where you truly help people... teachers nurses doctors paramedics, even fewer people willing to risk their lives to do it, fire fighters military gang counselors, and thankfully for you even fewer willing to help people, risk their lives, and face the ill informed judgemental people like yourself, and continue to soldier on despite it, because somebody has to...maybe he made a mistake and maybe he didnt either way it's sad you think its your place to armchair quarterback and assume you'd do any better, step up or shutup I think
There are certified cases of police blasting innocents like for example that black guy who got shot multiple times, in the back, after trying to run away from the cop. He had been stopped prior to that and was talking to the policeman over some shit he was supposed to get a fine over (car backlights broken or whatever it was). Just to make things clear: i'm not one of those uninformed BLM-fools ready to throw a tantrum over any police shooting either but unwarranted shootings do happen aswell.
You don't think in the end cops are merely human like the rest of us, susceptible to douchebaggery and corruption? In Mexico you have examples of municipalities where huge chunks of officers are on the take, even the majority in some cases. There are cartel members who even made a complete transfer and went over from being cops. Wake up and remove that pedestal: just because he holds this or that title it doesn't making him immune and it out of the question that he's a douche.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
I think some of the responses here are absolutely ridiculous and would make the Founding Fathers shake their heads in disbelief. The job of the police is to protect and serve. Period. They should use deadly force only when their life is clearly in jeopardy. The excuse "I thought he was reaching for a weapon" does not fly. The police officer who shot the guy in Wichita needs to be tried for manslaughter. The police chief who defended the actions should be fired. Similarly, Daniel Shaver was shot by a police officer while on the ground, begging for his life. The asshole of an excuse for a police officer had the words "You're Fucked" engraved on his gun. He was rightfully fired and tried for murder. Why he was found not guilty I don't know. Might have been only one juror, who knows, but in my mind it's a travesty. If it were a civilian in the same situation, he would have been found guilty at once, even if the civilian would claim he was acting to protect others from a perceived threat. As for running away from the police, unless the perpetrator had actually shot at them or shows clear danger to the public, there is no way they should be allowed to shoot. In fact the police are more likely to hit a civilian and that happens too. I know being a police officer is difficult, and the majority do good work, nonetheless, trigger-happy officers that are not mentally whole should in no way be officers and we need better standards and regulations so that this stops from happening.
"Hot shot pulling the trigger" shame on you, there's few people in the world willing to take on a profession where you truly help people... teachers nurses doctors paramedics, even fewer people willing to risk their lives to do it, fire fighters military gang counselors, and thankfully for you even fewer willing to help people, risk their lives, and face the ill informed judgemental people like yourself, and continue to soldier on despite it, because somebody has to...maybe he made a mistake and maybe he didnt either way it's sad you think its your place to armchair quarterback and assume you'd do any better, step up or shutup I think
There are certified cases of police blasting innocents like for example that black guy who got shot multiple times, in the back, after trying to run away from the cop. He had been stopped prior to that and was talking to the policeman over some shit he was supposed to get a fine over (car backlights broken or whatever it was). Just to make things clear: i'm not one of those uninformed BLM-fools ready to throw a tantrum over any police shooting either but unwarranted shootings do happen aswell.
You don't think in the end cops are merely human like the rest of us, susceptible to douchebaggery and corruption? In Mexico you have examples of municipalities where huge chunks of officers are on the take, even the majority in some cases. There are cartel members who even made a complete transfer and went over from being cops. Wake up and remove that pedestal: just because he holds this or that title it doesn't making him immune and it out of the question that he's a douche.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
Do you happen to know the distance they can taze someone? I'd assume that's the first thing you'd try. I know non lethal shots would be a bitch to pull off if someone is running. Honestly, I'm unfamiliar with the case that's being talked about. Me personally (Not a trained officer) I would consider what they're wanted on or what the fine is for. Is it a serious life or death offense? If so... yeah, maybe make that lethal call. If it's petty traffic type stuff? Pursue and if they get away, that's another thing they're faced with. If they've got a job... It's pretty easy to get a lockdown on where you might be able to catch them another day.
Not trying to shit on you, I promise. I was an ass before but I'm being sincere now.
What I love is the fact that theres 400+ swattings a year and the first one results in a tragic death makes all cops "corrupt cartel cowardly murderers..." just plain stupidity... you read about a rare bad shooting meanwhile there are millions of interactions a year that go without use of deadly force, nearly all officers never fire their weapon in their career 25+ years, but lets just jump on the few people out there risking their lives to help us every time one in a very rare instance makes a mistake. That is my problem with this crap, assuming police are bad because of a bad apple or more likely a human error... which of course we are all beyond. Just sad to see, no appreciation for the people that let your world turn
"Hot shot pulling the trigger" shame on you, there's few people in the world willing to take on a profession where you truly help people... teachers nurses doctors paramedics, even fewer people willing to risk their lives to do it, fire fighters military gang counselors, and thankfully for you even fewer willing to help people, risk their lives, and face the ill informed judgemental people like yourself, and continue to soldier on despite it, because somebody has to...maybe he made a mistake and maybe he didnt either way it's sad you think its your place to armchair quarterback and assume you'd do any better, step up or shutup I think
There are certified cases of police blasting innocents like for example that black guy who got shot multiple times, in the back, after trying to run away from the cop. He had been stopped prior to that and was talking to the policeman over some shit he was supposed to get a fine over (car backlights broken or whatever it was). Just to make things clear: i'm not one of those uninformed BLM-fools ready to throw a tantrum over any police shooting either but unwarranted shootings do happen aswell.
You don't think in the end cops are merely human like the rest of us, susceptible to douchebaggery and corruption? In Mexico you have examples of municipalities where huge chunks of officers are on the take, even the majority in some cases. There are cartel members who even made a complete transfer and went over from being cops. Wake up and remove that pedestal: just because he holds this or that title it doesn't making him immune and it out of the question that he's a douche.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
So you're saying it's justified shooting an unarmed petty offender in the back multiple times until he dies, alright bro. And then he also doctored the corpse so that it would appear the man was armed (planted a tazer or gun on it) so i guess he wasn't as convinced himself about the procedure as you are. Oh yeah, he did get a life sentence this time but probably only thanks to it being filmed. Otherwise most likely he would've gotten off the hook.
It's scary when people are this appologetic to abuse thinking there's merely a "tough but fair" issue at play because, you know, they're cops so ofcourse they won't be bad. I'd like to hear your justifications if it was you ending up paraplegic or one of yours deead from running away from some fucking parking ticket i'm sure you would've been just as understanding.
My wife and I have actually made it a 2018 goal to "park" our cells and if we can survive well enough for a month, we want to strategize stepping all the way down to feature phones. Looking forward to it too. I know there are a lot of benefits to smart phones but there are so many distractions. About 9 months ago I looked at my wife, after hitting the feeder bar of a game for a while, and I just snapped with a realization and said "My God, this is the cigarette's of our generation!" implying that we use these things like people use to smoke in the 50s and 60s. I also can't help but wonder if all of this constant connectedness is harming our brains in ways that aren't easily discernable. But, I digress.
Regarding the shooting with the officer, I admit I didn't read the full story so it could have been mentioned if the officer was out of line, however, this could just as easily be an issue with police protocol. This could have been a seasoned, level-headed officer. If the problem, though, was with protocol and training then this is a case where training needs to be changed.
I'm not trying to side with the officer, or the police, but our society seems to continually change and we're inventing new ways/reasons to kill one another or, in this case, be stupid idiotic jerks. Unfortunately, it may take an event like this for police trainers and process researchers to say "well, swatting is becoming a real thing and a sad 'loophole' has been discovered in our protocol." The way I see it is 15-20 years ago, if someone was called to a house, and swatting was never even a thing, police would be apt to trust the citizen calling 911 because "people are generally honest when reporting issues." So if you have a person reported as dead, shot in the head, and two others taken hostage, you take your given-opportunities to relieve the incident. I can't say I know protocol, but considering the high stakes of the situation, I could see that being how officers might have been instructed. In certain cases, shoot first and then ask questions.
But, with swatting, trust the one reporting the crime has to be eliminated. Shoot-first has a MUCH greater chance of causing innocent death than it would historically. I admit that this is an arm chair perspective but I'm related to, and have many friends, who are first responders or are in law enforcement and this sounds like potential protocol. This is a sad story all-around but I'd not so quickly judge the officer. He could have "perfectly" done his job. The problem is, however, the imperfect nature of his training may have failed him and society. No doubt though, change will occur because of this.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
Not speaking to the specific details of this case you guys are talking about. But are you seriously saying that if you run from the cops you deserve to be shot and killed?? Because that is what you just said. I understand these people are not innocent of crimes, but running away from a cop should not get you shot and killed. And if that is what you believe, i never want to live in the world you think is okay.
And no, you would not be golden because you can outrun the cops. Cops are trained specifically to chase down criminals on foot because it is something that frequently happens in the field. Of course some people will get away, nothing is 100%, but a good percent of the time you are going to get pinched if you run, especially in todays age with the technology we have, and only make it worse for yourself and get more time in the end for evading police. That is the consequence, more charges and longer time to serve. Not whip out their gun like yosemite sam and shoot them. Unless you deliberately threaten or endanger the lives of others around you.
What I love is the fact that theres 400+ swattings a year and the first one results in a tragic death makes all cops "corrupt cartel cowardly murderers..." just plain stupidity... you read about a rare bad shooting meanwhile there are millions of interactions a year that go without use of deadly force, nearly all officers never fire their weapon in their career 25+ years, but lets just jump on the few people out there risking their lives to help us every time one in a very rare instance makes a mistake. That is my problem with this crap, assuming police are bad because of a bad apple or more likely a human error... which of course we are all beyond. Just sad to see, no appreciation for the people that let your world turn
Nice strawman. You are changing the topic and putting words in peoples mouths and arguing with yourself about things nobody is saying, while telling others to grow up and calling them stupid. Nobody is saying all cops are bad or that this happens frequently, or that we don't appreciate the good cops or understand the complications of their job. Stop turning this into something it isn't. Cartman was saying not to blindly trust every cop because some are corrupt and they are human just like the rest of us. Your comment about "all cops are corrupt cartel cowardly murderes" is just ridiculous if that is what you got out of it.
But even so, this guy made a huge and AVOIDABLE mistake, and a person is dead for it. I understand it was a mistake, and their job is not easy, but it was a bonehead mistake that shouldn't have happened if he followed ANY of his training. This shouldn't just be swept under the rug because it was an accident or because it rarely happens. And it sets a dangerous precedent if we just let mistakes like this go with no repercussions.
Nobody is saying all cops are bad or that we don't appreciate them. So don't take it there.
What I love is the fact that theres 400+ swattings a year and the first one results in a tragic death makes all cops "corrupt cartel cowardly murderers..." just plain stupidity... you read about a rare bad shooting meanwhile there are millions of interactions a year that go without use of deadly force, nearly all officers never fire their weapon in their career 25+ years, but lets just jump on the few people out there risking their lives to help us every time one in a very rare instance makes a mistake. That is my problem with this crap, assuming police are bad because of a bad apple or more likely a human error... which of course we are all beyond. Just sad to see, no appreciation for the people that let your world turn
No i didn't say that it's a norm but made an extreme example of how it could be, to better highlight that misconduct on a smaller scale isn't all that spaced out of a notion at all. The fact that the majority of cases go smoothly doesn't mean that a fuck up/douche situation becomes any less so. It has to be looked at without bias and idol-worshipping, when someone is morally untouchable it sets the stage for very bad shit to happen.
What I love is the fact that theres 400+ swattings a year and the first one results in a tragic death makes all cops "corrupt cartel cowardly murderers..." just plain stupidity... you read about a rare bad shooting meanwhile there are millions of interactions a year that go without use of deadly force, nearly all officers never fire their weapon in their career 25+ years, but lets just jump on the few people out there risking their lives to help us every time one in a very rare instance makes a mistake. That is my problem with this crap, assuming police are bad because of a bad apple or more likely a human error... which of course we are all beyond. Just sad to see, no appreciation for the people that let your world turn
Nice strawman. You are changing the topic and putting words in peoples mouths and arguing with yourself about things nobody is saying, while telling others to grow up and calling them stupid. Nobody is saying all cops are bad or that this happens frequently, or that we don't appreciate the good cops or understand the complications of their job. Stop turning this into something it isn't. Cartman was saying not to blindly trust every cop because some are corrupt and they are human just like the rest of us. Your comment about "all cops are corrupt cartel cowardly murderes" is just ridiculous if that is what you got out of it.
But even so, this guy made a huge and AVOIDABLE mistake, and a person is dead for it. I understand it was a mistake, and their job is not easy, but it was a bonehead mistake that shouldn't have happened if he followed ANY of his training. This shouldn't just be swept under the rug because it was an accident or because it rarely happens. And it sets a dangerous precedent if we just let mistakes like this go with no repercussions.
Nobody is saying all cops are bad or that we don't appreciate them. So don't take it there.
We were not there, so we don't know what protocol was established for said assignment. Maybe the guy was instructed to shoot to kill, who knows, maybe he was just following orders. If so, the fault of this particular crime imo lies entirely on the guy that ordered the swatting, and the guy that gave the "fake" address; it is due to these two fine pieces of shit that the innocent guy was dead. Furthermore, it is due to those two pieces of shit that the police officer now has his life potentially ruined.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
Not speaking to the specific details of this case you guys are talking about. But are you seriously saying that if you run from the cops you deserve to be shot and killed?? Because that is what you just said. I understand these people are not innocent of crimes, but running away from a cop should not get you shot and killed. And if that is what you believe, i never want to live in the world you think is okay.
And no, you would not be golden because you can outrun the cops. Cops are trained specifically to chase down criminals on foot because it is something that frequently happens in the field. Of course some people will get away, nothing is 100%, but a good percent of the time you are going to get pinched if you run, especially in todays age with the technology we have, and only make it worse for yourself and get more time in the end for evading police. That is the consequence, more charges and longer time to serve. Not whip out their gun like yosemite sam and shoot them. Unless you deliberately threaten or endanger the lives of others around you.
I'm not saying that people deserve to die, however, what I am saying is that it is known to be unwise to try to run from the police. Just try to cooperate, and leave it at that.
If the guy set the dogs loose, then people would be arguing if the guy's leg got jacked. If the police chased the guy on foot and then caught him, and the guy had a heart attack while wrestling with the police officer, there again someone would try to pin the blame on the officer. Yet all of this stuff could have been avoidable, if the guy just complied and listened to what the officer had instructed him to do. Is it really such a hard thing to do? I don't think so, but maybe I was absent the day that everyone was taught that it's okay to ignore instructions from the police, that police and the law are don't apply to them.
"Slager, who is white, was caught on a witness' mobile camera chasing Mr Scott after a 2015 traffic stop and then shooting him in the back as he was running away"
Slager's first state trial had ended in a deadlocked jury and mistrial last year. In May, he pleaded guilty to using excessive force and violating Mr Scott's federal civil rights."
US District Court Judge David Norton ruled the death was second-degree murder. He also found Slager guilty of obstruction of justice for lying to investigators"
On the initial state trial, the former police officer said that during the ensuing struggle Mr Scott attempted to take his taser.
However, Mr Scott had never reached for the weapon.
He shot at Mr Scott eight times, hitting him with five bullets. His lawyers attempted to argue his actions were in the heat of the moment.
Slager, fired from the North Charleston police department in the wake of the murder, is one of the few police officers in recent years in the US to receive prison time for an on-duty shooting"
So the guy is running slower than a cripple while the cop calmly unholsters the gun and starts shooting at him. "Because he felt so threatened". When the guy wasn't even jockeying for his taser to begin with and even if he was, never got it. And even if he had gotten it he was a goofily running man and clearly not in state to be an actual threat in the situation where he was gunned down.
Strawman? Back peddle all you want, at least that means you’ve seen how crazy you guys were being, deflect on me if you want, if you read the whole thread you will see I was summing up peoples opinions, not making a direct quote from just one post, but several. Regardless my point being statistically most police are great, nearly every incident is resolved without use of force or deadly force, so while im not saying “blind trust” i hope you learn to check yourself and your negative bias going forward, and yes thats part of being an adult, forming critical thought
And cartman, yes that is a bad incident, it doesnt make you right, shall I crash the website by linking every news article where nothing goes wrong? Oh wait only the bad things are published, the very small less than a tenth of a percent of incidents. Im not excusing anything but this anti police bias is schoolyard crap
Strawman? Back peddle all you want, at least that means you’ve seen how crazy you guys were being, deflect on me if you want, if you read the whole thread you will see I was summing up peoples opinions, not making a direct quote from just one post, but several. Regardless my point being statistically most police are great, nearly every incident is resolved without use of force or deadly force, so while im not saying “blind trust” i hope you learn to check yourself and your negative bias going forward, and yes thats part of being an adult, forming critical thought
Who is backepdaling??? lol i am saying the same thing i said in my earlier posts verbatim, you are the one misreading literally everything people are saying and putting words in peoples mouths and arguing points that we aren't even discussing and blindy apologizing for the cop even though you are saying there is no "blind trust". You also have now told someone to grow up, called people stupid, and are now insulting me by saying i am not an adult and can't do critical thinking. How about you lose the attitude and discuss things like an adult without resorting to baseless comments like you have been doing. THAT is also part of being an adult.
Read through the comments again Mr. Critical thinking. People are not shitting on all cops like you keep saying, i am not sure where you are getting this information from, why you keep repeating it ad nauseum, or how you are coming to your conclusion that i am backpedaling and have "seen how crazy we were being". The only thing i am seeing is that you don't know how to properly have a discussion where you get your points across without resorting to insults (like....ahem..an adult). And you keep getting lost in your own assumptions and opinions.
All people are saying is in this specific case, with this specific cop, it does not look good for his actions and there are not many scenarios that if any that could warrant his knee jerk reaction to shoot this person. I am not even saying the cop is an asshole, he very well could have just made a mistake, he is human. But that doesn't mean what he did was okay, accident or not. I have no negative bias, have law enforcement in my family, as well as military. But you clearly want to argue with yourself, form strawman arguments and deflect, and insult people.....so have fun with that, i am not wasting anymore time on someone who can't discuss topics like an adult and just wants to throw insults instead.
And cartman, yes that is a bad incident, it doesnt make you right, shall I crash the website by linking every news article where nothing goes wrong? Oh wait only the bad things are published, the very small less than a tenth of a percent of incidents. Im not excusing anything but this anti police bias is schoolyard crap
As i said correct procedure does not cancel out unwarranted one in some tit-for-tat game. Should you link to irrelevant things - no.
You seem very upset and it’s confusing what you are even debating. I’m glad to see you’ve focused on me now instead, happy to call people out as its hard to just let people rant without merit, someone has to be a voice of reason... Be water my friend
But while it is certain that police were led to Finch's house on West McCormick because of a fake distress call – those involved with the fake call should be criminally accountable – the fact remains that Wichita police killed an unarmed man. The Kansas Bureau of Investigation should thoroughly investigate whether the shooting was reasonable under Kansas law... First, why was only one shot fired from one officer?... Second, why was video footage from one body camera released to the public last week but not others?... But as investigations continue, it's important to remember it was an unarmed man who was shot and killed last week.
Hard to justify this one in my opinion. Even with the knowledge they had, the call etc., it seems ridiculous that the police would fataly shoot this guy. It's frustrating reading comments about how Finch should have acted to help himself when he also had zero idea what's going on and was likely quite frantic with his house surrounded. Hell, I get a little nervous with any police interaction such as routine traffic stops. It's sad that you're expected to follow apparently a very strick protocol to make sure you're not murdered by the police. Tragic all around, but blaming Finch in any sense is quite the stretch and even disrespectful.
You seem very upset and it’s confusing what you are even debating. I’m glad to see you’ve focused on me now instead, happy to call people out as its hard to just let people rant without merit, someone has to be a voice of reason... Be water my friend
I am far more confused by what you are debating. Are you reading all the same posts I am? There was no cop hating going on here, just saying that he should be held responsible.
An innocent young man who just answered his door is dead.
Everyone is aware that the police have a difficult job, and of course only the extreme examples make the news. Because 400+ swattings a year occur with no deaths doesn't mean this officer shouldn't be held accountable.
Hard to justify this one in my opinion. Even with the knowledge they had, the call etc., it seems ridiculous that the police would fataly shoot this guy. It's frustrating reading comments about how Finch should have acted to help himself when he also had zero idea what's going on and was likely quite frantic with his house surrounded. Hell, I get a little nervous with any police interaction such as routine traffic stops. It's sad that you're expected to follow apparently a very strick protocol to make sure you're not murdered by the police. Tragic all around, but blaming Finch in any sense is quite the stretch and even disrespectful.
Agree completely.
It would be hard for me to ever see how it would be appropriate to blame Finch, and I think to do so would be incredibly unempathetic.
Well i certainly read a lot of bias, so figured I would balance it out, and at no point ever did I blame the victim, it is very tragic what happend to him
I still think this whole issue doesn't really have to do with a misinterpreted hands surrender but the cop simply feeling justified in killing him off. He only stepped in shit when the victim turned up to be an uninvolved civilian highlighting the situation as real fucking bad so in an attempt to protect the narrative of professionalism he simply "miscalculated" the mans surrender. Old Dirty Harry would've been a hero had the guy really been a killer and then gotten blasted... his case would've been so heavily fucking outbiased (being dead helps) that it would've been impossible to argue it, even if someone attempted to.
Comments
"Hot shot pulling the trigger" shame on you, there's few people in the world willing to take on a profession where you truly help people... teachers nurses doctors paramedics, even fewer people willing to risk their lives to do it, fire fighters military gang counselors, and thankfully for you even fewer willing to help people, risk their lives, and face the ill informed judgemental people like yourself, and continue to soldier on despite it, because somebody has to...maybe he made a mistake and maybe he didnt either way it's sad you think its your place to armchair quarterback and assume you'd do any better, step up or shutup I think
There are certified cases of police blasting innocents like for example that black guy who got shot multiple times, in the back, after trying to run away from the cop. He had been stopped prior to that and was talking to the policeman over some shit he was supposed to get a fine over (car backlights broken or whatever it was). Just to make things clear: i'm not one of those uninformed BLM-fools ready to throw a tantrum over any police shooting either but unwarranted shootings do happen aswell.
You don't think in the end cops are merely human like the rest of us, susceptible to douchebaggery and corruption? In Mexico you have examples of municipalities where huge chunks of officers are on the take, even the majority in some cases. There are cartel members who even made a complete transfer and went over from being cops. Wake up and remove that pedestal: just because he holds this or that title it doesn't making him immune and it out of the question that he's a douche.
What matters is what THIS cop did...in THIS situation.
Yes ofcourse. I would say he was out of line because if you're far away and/or your orders not impactful enough then what purpose do they fucking serve in the first place? No proper cummunication towards the man for a chance to surrender and a "hands up" command that's evidently fragile and susceptible to error regardless of the compliance so the procedure is obviously shitty.
My take on it is that is that a perpetrator of a crime like that (murdering family) has a negative bias towards him that can have a "spill over"-effect that goes beyond posing an actual threat. A situation that would've not warranted a shooting becomes an "alright let's take him out and get this job done" type of mentality... no real need to fuck around with formalities when the "badguy" is identified.
I think that's what was at play here that the treshold was lowered.
"Hot shot pulling the trigger" shame on you, there's few people in the world willing to take on a profession where you truly help people... teachers nurses doctors paramedics, even fewer people willing to risk their lives to do it, fire fighters military gang counselors, and thankfully for you even fewer willing to help people, risk their lives, and face the ill informed judgemental people like yourself, and continue to soldier on despite it, because somebody has to...maybe he made a mistake and maybe he didnt either way it's sad you think its your place to armchair quarterback and assume you'd do any better, step up or shutup I think
There are certified cases of police blasting innocents like for example that black guy who got shot multiple times, in the back, after trying to run away from the cop. He had been stopped prior to that and was talking to the policeman over some shit he was supposed to get a fine over (car backlights broken or whatever it was). Just to make things clear: i'm not one of those uninformed BLM-fools ready to throw a tantrum over any police shooting either but unwarranted shootings do happen aswell.
You don't think in the end cops are merely human like the rest of us, susceptible to douchebaggery and corruption? In Mexico you have examples of municipalities where huge chunks of officers are on the take, even the majority in some cases. There are cartel members who even made a complete transfer and went over from being cops. Wake up and remove that pedestal: just because he holds this or that title it doesn't making him immune and it out of the question that he's a douche.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
Lets get rid of online gaming.
I'll go along with that !
Get rid of cell phones too !
"Hot shot pulling the trigger" shame on you, there's few people in the world willing to take on a profession where you truly help people... teachers nurses doctors paramedics, even fewer people willing to risk their lives to do it, fire fighters military gang counselors, and thankfully for you even fewer willing to help people, risk their lives, and face the ill informed judgemental people like yourself, and continue to soldier on despite it, because somebody has to...maybe he made a mistake and maybe he didnt either way it's sad you think its your place to armchair quarterback and assume you'd do any better, step up or shutup I think
There are certified cases of police blasting innocents like for example that black guy who got shot multiple times, in the back, after trying to run away from the cop. He had been stopped prior to that and was talking to the policeman over some shit he was supposed to get a fine over (car backlights broken or whatever it was). Just to make things clear: i'm not one of those uninformed BLM-fools ready to throw a tantrum over any police shooting either but unwarranted shootings do happen aswell.
You don't think in the end cops are merely human like the rest of us, susceptible to douchebaggery and corruption? In Mexico you have examples of municipalities where huge chunks of officers are on the take, even the majority in some cases. There are cartel members who even made a complete transfer and went over from being cops. Wake up and remove that pedestal: just because he holds this or that title it doesn't making him immune and it out of the question that he's a douche.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
Do you happen to know the distance they can taze someone? I'd assume that's the first thing you'd try. I know non lethal shots would be a bitch to pull off if someone is running. Honestly, I'm unfamiliar with the case that's being talked about. Me personally (Not a trained officer) I would consider what they're wanted on or what the fine is for. Is it a serious life or death offense? If so... yeah, maybe make that lethal call. If it's petty traffic type stuff? Pursue and if they get away, that's another thing they're faced with. If they've got a job... It's pretty easy to get a lockdown on where you might be able to catch them another day.
Not trying to shit on you, I promise. I was an ass before but I'm being sincere now.
"Hot shot pulling the trigger" shame on you, there's few people in the world willing to take on a profession where you truly help people... teachers nurses doctors paramedics, even fewer people willing to risk their lives to do it, fire fighters military gang counselors, and thankfully for you even fewer willing to help people, risk their lives, and face the ill informed judgemental people like yourself, and continue to soldier on despite it, because somebody has to...maybe he made a mistake and maybe he didnt either way it's sad you think its your place to armchair quarterback and assume you'd do any better, step up or shutup I think
There are certified cases of police blasting innocents like for example that black guy who got shot multiple times, in the back, after trying to run away from the cop. He had been stopped prior to that and was talking to the policeman over some shit he was supposed to get a fine over (car backlights broken or whatever it was). Just to make things clear: i'm not one of those uninformed BLM-fools ready to throw a tantrum over any police shooting either but unwarranted shootings do happen aswell.
You don't think in the end cops are merely human like the rest of us, susceptible to douchebaggery and corruption? In Mexico you have examples of municipalities where huge chunks of officers are on the take, even the majority in some cases. There are cartel members who even made a complete transfer and went over from being cops. Wake up and remove that pedestal: just because he holds this or that title it doesn't making him immune and it out of the question that he's a douche.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
So you're saying it's justified shooting an unarmed petty offender in the back multiple times until he dies, alright bro. And then he also doctored the corpse so that it would appear the man was armed (planted a tazer or gun on it) so i guess he wasn't as convinced himself about the procedure as you are. Oh yeah, he did get a life sentence this time but probably only thanks to it being filmed. Otherwise most likely he would've gotten off the hook.
It's scary when people are this appologetic to abuse thinking there's merely a "tough but fair" issue at play because, you know, they're cops so ofcourse they won't be bad. I'd like to hear your justifications if it was you ending up paraplegic or one of yours deead from running away from some fucking parking ticket i'm sure you would've been just as understanding.
Lets get rid of online gaming.
I'll go along with that !
Get rid of cell phones too !
My wife and I have actually made it a 2018 goal to "park" our cells and if we can survive well enough for a month, we want to strategize stepping all the way down to feature phones. Looking forward to it too. I know there are a lot of benefits to smart phones but there are so many distractions. About 9 months ago I looked at my wife, after hitting the feeder bar of a game for a while, and I just snapped with a realization and said "My God, this is the cigarette's of our generation!" implying that we use these things like people use to smoke in the 50s and 60s. I also can't help but wonder if all of this constant connectedness is harming our brains in ways that aren't easily discernable. But, I digress.
Regarding the shooting with the officer, I admit I didn't read the full story so it could have been mentioned if the officer was out of line, however, this could just as easily be an issue with police protocol. This could have been a seasoned, level-headed officer. If the problem, though, was with protocol and training then this is a case where training needs to be changed.
I'm not trying to side with the officer, or the police, but our society seems to continually change and we're inventing new ways/reasons to kill one another or, in this case, be stupid idiotic jerks. Unfortunately, it may take an event like this for police trainers and process researchers to say "well, swatting is becoming a real thing and a sad 'loophole' has been discovered in our protocol." The way I see it is 15-20 years ago, if someone was called to a house, and swatting was never even a thing, police would be apt to trust the citizen calling 911 because "people are generally honest when reporting issues." So if you have a person reported as dead, shot in the head, and two others taken hostage, you take your given-opportunities to relieve the incident. I can't say I know protocol, but considering the high stakes of the situation, I could see that being how officers might have been instructed. In certain cases, shoot first and then ask questions.
But, with swatting, trust the one reporting the crime has to be eliminated. Shoot-first has a MUCH greater chance of causing innocent death than it would historically. I admit that this is an arm chair perspective but I'm related to, and have many friends, who are first responders or are in law enforcement and this sounds like potential protocol. This is a sad story all-around but I'd not so quickly judge the officer. He could have "perfectly" done his job. The problem is, however, the imperfect nature of his training may have failed him and society. No doubt though, change will occur because of this.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
Not speaking to the specific details of this case you guys are talking about. But are you seriously saying that if you run from the cops you deserve to be shot and killed?? Because that is what you just said. I understand these people are not innocent of crimes, but running away from a cop should not get you shot and killed. And if that is what you believe, i never want to live in the world you think is okay.
And no, you would not be golden because you can outrun the cops. Cops are trained specifically to chase down criminals on foot because it is something that frequently happens in the field. Of course some people will get away, nothing is 100%, but a good percent of the time you are going to get pinched if you run, especially in todays age with the technology we have, and only make it worse for yourself and get more time in the end for evading police. That is the consequence, more charges and longer time to serve. Not whip out their gun like yosemite sam and shoot them. Unless you deliberately threaten or endanger the lives of others around you.
What I love is the fact that theres 400+ swattings a year and the first one results in a tragic death makes all cops "corrupt cartel cowardly murderers..." just plain stupidity... you read about a rare bad shooting meanwhile there are millions of interactions a year that go without use of deadly force, nearly all officers never fire their weapon in their career 25+ years, but lets just jump on the few people out there risking their lives to help us every time one in a very rare instance makes a mistake. That is my problem with this crap, assuming police are bad because of a bad apple or more likely a human error... which of course we are all beyond. Just sad to see, no appreciation for the people that let your world turn
Nice strawman. You are changing the topic and putting words in peoples mouths and arguing with yourself about things nobody is saying, while telling others to grow up and calling them stupid. Nobody is saying all cops are bad or that this happens frequently, or that we don't appreciate the good cops or understand the complications of their job. Stop turning this into something it isn't. Cartman was saying not to blindly trust every cop because some are corrupt and they are human just like the rest of us. Your comment about "all cops are corrupt cartel cowardly murderes" is just ridiculous if that is what you got out of it.
But even so, this guy made a huge and AVOIDABLE mistake, and a person is dead for it. I understand it was a mistake, and their job is not easy, but it was a bonehead mistake that shouldn't have happened if he followed ANY of his training. This shouldn't just be swept under the rug because it was an accident or because it rarely happens. And it sets a dangerous precedent if we just let mistakes like this go with no repercussions.
Nobody is saying all cops are bad or that we don't appreciate them. So don't take it there.
What I love is the fact that theres 400+ swattings a year and the first one results in a tragic death makes all cops "corrupt cartel cowardly murderers..." just plain stupidity... you read about a rare bad shooting meanwhile there are millions of interactions a year that go without use of deadly force, nearly all officers never fire their weapon in their career 25+ years, but lets just jump on the few people out there risking their lives to help us every time one in a very rare instance makes a mistake. That is my problem with this crap, assuming police are bad because of a bad apple or more likely a human error... which of course we are all beyond. Just sad to see, no appreciation for the people that let your world turn
No i didn't say that it's a norm but made an extreme example of how it could be, to better highlight that misconduct on a smaller scale isn't all that spaced out of a notion at all. The fact that the majority of cases go smoothly doesn't mean that a fuck up/douche situation becomes any less so. It has to be looked at without bias and idol-worshipping, when someone is morally untouchable it sets the stage for very bad shit to happen.
What I love is the fact that theres 400+ swattings a year and the first one results in a tragic death makes all cops "corrupt cartel cowardly murderers..." just plain stupidity... you read about a rare bad shooting meanwhile there are millions of interactions a year that go without use of deadly force, nearly all officers never fire their weapon in their career 25+ years, but lets just jump on the few people out there risking their lives to help us every time one in a very rare instance makes a mistake. That is my problem with this crap, assuming police are bad because of a bad apple or more likely a human error... which of course we are all beyond. Just sad to see, no appreciation for the people that let your world turn
Nice strawman. You are changing the topic and putting words in peoples mouths and arguing with yourself about things nobody is saying, while telling others to grow up and calling them stupid. Nobody is saying all cops are bad or that this happens frequently, or that we don't appreciate the good cops or understand the complications of their job. Stop turning this into something it isn't. Cartman was saying not to blindly trust every cop because some are corrupt and they are human just like the rest of us. Your comment about "all cops are corrupt cartel cowardly murderes" is just ridiculous if that is what you got out of it.
But even so, this guy made a huge and AVOIDABLE mistake, and a person is dead for it. I understand it was a mistake, and their job is not easy, but it was a bonehead mistake that shouldn't have happened if he followed ANY of his training. This shouldn't just be swept under the rug because it was an accident or because it rarely happens. And it sets a dangerous precedent if we just let mistakes like this go with no repercussions.
Nobody is saying all cops are bad or that we don't appreciate them. So don't take it there.
We were not there, so we don't know what protocol was established for said assignment. Maybe the guy was instructed to shoot to kill, who knows, maybe he was just following orders. If so, the fault of this particular crime imo lies entirely on the guy that ordered the swatting, and the guy that gave the "fake" address; it is due to these two fine pieces of shit that the innocent guy was dead. Furthermore, it is due to those two pieces of shit that the police officer now has his life potentially ruined.
He was trying to run away, to avoid paying the fine / arrest / whatever. What do you expect is going to happen if you try to run away from the police? They will just shrug their shoulders and call it a day? If that is to become an accepted standard, then all anyone has to do, when confronted by a police officer, is to turn and run, and if in better physical shape, he or she is golden.
Yes, there are douchebags in every profession, ones who abuse whatever authority they have. At the same time though, if the guy is trying to evade an officer after being stopped, I would hardly call that innocent.
Not speaking to the specific details of this case you guys are talking about. But are you seriously saying that if you run from the cops you deserve to be shot and killed?? Because that is what you just said. I understand these people are not innocent of crimes, but running away from a cop should not get you shot and killed. And if that is what you believe, i never want to live in the world you think is okay.
And no, you would not be golden because you can outrun the cops. Cops are trained specifically to chase down criminals on foot because it is something that frequently happens in the field. Of course some people will get away, nothing is 100%, but a good percent of the time you are going to get pinched if you run, especially in todays age with the technology we have, and only make it worse for yourself and get more time in the end for evading police. That is the consequence, more charges and longer time to serve. Not whip out their gun like yosemite sam and shoot them. Unless you deliberately threaten or endanger the lives of others around you.
I'm not saying that people deserve to die, however, what I am saying is that it is known to be unwise to try to run from the police. Just try to cooperate, and leave it at that.
If the guy set the dogs loose, then people would be arguing if the guy's leg got jacked. If the police chased the guy on foot and then caught him, and the guy had a heart attack while wrestling with the police officer, there again someone would try to pin the blame on the officer. Yet all of this stuff could have been avoidable, if the guy just complied and listened to what the officer had instructed him to do. Is it really such a hard thing to do? I don't think so, but maybe I was absent the day that everyone was taught that it's okay to ignore instructions from the police, that police and the law are don't apply to them.
Slager's first state trial had ended in a deadlocked jury and mistrial last year. In May, he pleaded guilty to using excessive force and violating Mr Scott's federal civil rights."
US District Court Judge David Norton ruled the death was second-degree murder. He also found Slager guilty of obstruction of justice for lying to investigators"
On the initial state trial, the former police officer said that during the ensuing struggle Mr Scott attempted to take his taser.
However, Mr Scott had never reached for the weapon.
He shot at Mr Scott eight times, hitting him with five bullets. His lawyers attempted to argue his actions were in the heat of the moment.
Slager, fired from the North Charleston police department in the wake of the murder, is one of the few police officers in recent years in the US to receive prison time for an on-duty shooting"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/walter-scott-shooting-verdict-policeman-sentence-jail-20-years-killing-black-man-a8098271.html
Here's the shooting:
So the guy is running slower than a cripple while the cop calmly unholsters the gun and starts shooting at him. "Because he felt so threatened". When the guy wasn't even jockeying for his taser to begin with and even if he was, never got it. And even if he had gotten it he was a goofily running man and clearly not in state to be an actual threat in the situation where he was gunned down.
Strawman? Back peddle all you want, at least that means you’ve seen how crazy you guys were being, deflect on me if you want, if you read the whole thread you will see I was summing up peoples opinions, not making a direct quote from just one post, but several. Regardless my point being statistically most police are great, nearly every incident is resolved without use of force or deadly force, so while im not saying “blind trust” i hope you learn to check yourself and your negative bias going forward, and yes thats part of being an adult, forming critical thought
Who is backepdaling??? lol i am saying the same thing i said in my earlier posts verbatim, you are the one misreading literally everything people are saying and putting words in peoples mouths and arguing points that we aren't even discussing and blindy apologizing for the cop even though you are saying there is no "blind trust". You also have now told someone to grow up, called people stupid, and are now insulting me by saying i am not an adult and can't do critical thinking. How about you lose the attitude and discuss things like an adult without resorting to baseless comments like you have been doing. THAT is also part of being an adult.
Read through the comments again Mr. Critical thinking. People are not shitting on all cops like you keep saying, i am not sure where you are getting this information from, why you keep repeating it ad nauseum, or how you are coming to your conclusion that i am backpedaling and have "seen how crazy we were being". The only thing i am seeing is that you don't know how to properly have a discussion where you get your points across without resorting to insults (like....ahem..an adult). And you keep getting lost in your own assumptions and opinions.
All people are saying is in this specific case, with this specific cop, it does not look good for his actions and there are not many scenarios that if any that could warrant his knee jerk reaction to shoot this person. I am not even saying the cop is an asshole, he very well could have just made a mistake, he is human. But that doesn't mean what he did was okay, accident or not. I have no negative bias, have law enforcement in my family, as well as military. But you clearly want to argue with yourself, form strawman arguments and deflect, and insult people.....so have fun with that, i am not wasting anymore time on someone who can't discuss topics like an adult and just wants to throw insults instead.
And cartman, yes that is a bad incident, it doesnt make you right, shall I crash the website by linking every news article where nothing goes wrong? Oh wait only the bad things are published, the very small less than a tenth of a percent of incidents. Im not excusing anything but this anti police bias is schoolyard crap
As i said correct procedure does not cancel out unwarranted one in some tit-for-tat game. Should you link to irrelevant things - no.
http://www.kansas.com/opinion/editorials/article192492279.html#storylink=cpy
You seem very upset and it’s confusing what you are even debating. I’m glad to see you’ve focused on me now instead, happy to call people out as its hard to just let people rant without merit, someone has to be a voice of reason... Be water my friend
I am far more confused by what you are debating. Are you reading all the same posts I am? There was no cop hating going on here, just saying that he should be held responsible.
An innocent young man who just answered his door is dead.
Everyone is aware that the police have a difficult job, and of course only the extreme examples make the news. Because 400+ swattings a year occur with no deaths doesn't mean this officer shouldn't be held accountable.
Hard to justify this one in my opinion. Even with the knowledge they had, the call etc., it seems ridiculous that the police would fataly shoot this guy. It's frustrating reading comments about how Finch should have acted to help himself when he also had zero idea what's going on and was likely quite frantic with his house surrounded. Hell, I get a little nervous with any police interaction such as routine traffic stops. It's sad that you're expected to follow apparently a very strick protocol to make sure you're not murdered by the police. Tragic all around, but blaming Finch in any sense is quite the stretch and even disrespectful.
Agree completely.
It would be hard for me to ever see how it would be appropriate to blame Finch, and I think to do so would be incredibly unempathetic.