And again... what I was arguing against is on the first few pages the broad sweeping comments/name calling etc and negative assumptions about Police. I have always maintained what happend to the victim was tragic
No, but when a policeman is involved in something like this, we do have to have an investigation.
Every police officer who fires their weapon is put on administrative leave until the shooting is looked at. That's standard procedure and perfectly reasonable (they fired for a reason, it's in the public's interest that the officer's superiors know the reason.)
I'm absolutely amazed people in 2018 still do this dispite there already being several arrests made. But I guess if I sat around drinking drain cleaner and huffing gas fumes I would be doing stupid crap like this too.
And again... what I was arguing against is on the first few pages the broad sweeping comments/name calling etc and negative assumptions about Police. I have always maintained what happend to the victim was tragic
No, but when a policeman is involved in something like this, we do have to have an investigation.
Every police officer who fires their weapon is put on administrative leave until the shooting is looked at. That's standard procedure and perfectly reasonable (they fired for a reason, it's in the public's interest that the officer's superiors know the reason.)
Yeah he's put on paid vacation until they've concluded their boy was innocent
Sigh, see this is what im talking about. Outside agencies investigate officer involved shootings and the reason they go to trial is for the publics benefit and to remove any favourtism. Stop making generalizations based on bias about a group of people that isn’t supported by reality, its ignorant man
"Some police departments have internal affairs divisions that work alongside civilian review boards, others have civilian review boards that serve as a check on the activity of the internal affairs division, and still others have oversight groups that operate independently of the police. Some civilian review systems use civilian volunteers; others have full-time professionals.
Even basic statistics on the number of complaints against police are hard to come by. A federal survey found that just 8 percent of the use-of-force complaints received by large state and local law enforcement agencies in 2002 were deemed credible -- they were "sustained," in cop lingo. Most experts who have studied internal affairs think that rate is much lower than it would be if the process weren't in many ways designed to protect officers.
"In Cleveland, where just 51 officers from a force of 1,500 were disciplined "in any fashion in connection with a use of force incident" over 3.5 years, those investigating the use of force admitted to DOJ that they conducted their inquiries with the "goal of casting the accused officer in the most positive light possible."
"The Albuquerque Police Department failed to "implement an objective and rigorous internal accountability system," according to a DOJ report"
"One major hurdle for police accountability is that citizens often don't bother to file complaints because they don't think their concerns would be taken seriously. There is little motivation for police departments to encourage civilians to complain, experts say, and many internal affairs officers either implicitly or explicitly make it difficult for citizens to air their grievances."
Not getting into a stats war, but the fact that most do not result in charges suggest to me the far more likely conclusion that they are put in as retributive and to deflect the persons crime and suggested by lawyers to deflect at court... rather than a widespread cover up from people at the end of the day that took a job to help...
Not getting into a stats war, but the fact that most do not result in charges suggest to me the far more likely conclusion that they are put in as retributive and to deflect the persons crime and suggested by lawyers to deflect at court... rather than a widespread cover up from people at the end of the day that took a job to help...
It doesn't have to be a widespread coverup. Just people who work together looking out for each other.
Not getting into a stats war, but the fact that most do not result in charges suggest to me the far more likely conclusion that they are put in as retributive and to deflect the persons crime and suggested by lawyers to deflect at court... rather than a widespread cover up from people at the end of the day that took a job to help...
I think you aren't nearly as skeptical of things as you should be...
Not getting into a stats war, but the fact that most do not result in charges suggest to me the far more likely conclusion that they are put in as retributive and to deflect the persons crime and suggested by lawyers to deflect at court... rather than a widespread cover up from people at the end of the day that took a job to help...
So when a cop gets great leeway in both interpreting a threat and then having his own people/closely related agency investigate it further it "doesn't suggest much to you". But a civilian who doesn't have that kind of platform, now that is very telling. Despite the fact they had investigators who actually admitted favoritism wich is something that has a direct impact on those numbers being underrepresented.
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
We can only hope. This swatting nonsense needs to stop. And they need to make an example out of this guy to hopefully scare other people from ever doing this shit again. If he gets off with a slap on the wrist, it just shows you can get away with this behavior, and that is dangerous......
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
I would say the connection to manslaughter is still too indirect/circumstantial for it to justifiably qualify as manslaughter... not "hands on" enough. If there was a paragraph "manslaughter through third party by negligance" or something like that it would be all good to sentence through that but bending interpretations to fit a desired outcome isn't really what courtrooms should be doing.
it's a very strange limbo between prank and death this case is stuck in. Technically he's still just a prankster (albeit severe) and yet also something more than that at the same time.
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
I would say the connection to manslaughter is still too indirect/circumstantial for it to justifiably qualify as manslaughter... not "hands on" enough. If there was a paragraph "manslaughter through third party by negligance" or something like that it would be all good to sentence through that but bending interpretations to fit a desired outcome isn't really what courtrooms should be doing.
it's a very strange limbo between prank and death this case is stuck in. Technically he's still just a prankster (albeit severe) and yet also something more than that at the same time.
The settence for falsely accusing someone of a crime should be the same as that crime you are accusing them of.
Add up all his past performances and he should never see the light of day.
It's no question the swatter needs to be put away for as long as possible to set a precedent. He's an absolute garbage fire of a person, and if there's a party to blame here it's him. I'm sure there's a better way to discuss the problem with the police without everything getting so inflammatory on both sides.
I think all anyone is looking for here is some accountability. If this officer was the only one who discharged his weapon why did he feel justified to do so? None of the other people on the team felt the threat was so imminent, and they all have the same training he does. This wasn't a one on one standoff where some gut reaction can get you off for fear of your life.
As a private citizen I'm expected to be held accountable for every single action I take in my day to day, and professional life. If I run a red light I get a ticket. If I murder someone I'm put in jail. If I do my job poorly or incorrectly I get reprimanded or fired.
What makes what this officer did any more passable than what I do? Because he has a badge? Because "he was doing his job"? Because "he is the law"? That's laughable. If anything this officer should be held to a higher standard than anyone else in a circumstance like this. He has more knowledge and experience than any layman, but he made a mistake. And with mistakes come consequences, which I'm sure was something he was fully aware of.
I'm not saying he should get the chair, and I don't think anyone is saying he deserves to rot in a prison cell for the rest of his entire life, although maybe their view of justice is different than mine, but it certainly should be a punishable offense, no two ways about it.
I think there are some pretty serious problems with the American justice system and unless you see how it functions on an everyday basis it may not be as clear. That's not to say Archangel being from Canada makes your opinion invalid, but making those kinds comments without knowing the entire landscape is more or less just as misguided as this cop shooting before the entire situation was assessed.
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
I would say the connection to manslaughter is still too indirect/circumstantial for it to justifiably qualify as manslaughter... not "hands on" enough. If there was a paragraph "manslaughter through third party by negligance" or something like that it would be all good to sentence through that but bending interpretations to fit a desired outcome isn't really what courtrooms should be doing.
it's a very strange limbo between prank and death this case is stuck in. Technically he's still just a prankster (albeit severe) and yet also something more than that at the same time.
Anymore hands on and I would have said 1st or 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter is when a death is caused by indirect action or recklessness.
What makes what this officer did any more passable than what I do? Because he has a badge? Because "he was doing his job"? Because "he is the law"? That's laughable. If anything this officer should be held to a higher standard than anyone else in a circumstance like this. He has more knowledge and experience than any layman, but he made a mistake. And with mistakes come consequences, which I'm sure was something he was fully aware of.
You are absoultely right in one sense and I hope those in law enforcement never forget that they swore an oath to (paraphrase) serve the public trust, protect the innocent, and uphold the law. I mean for Pete's sake their dogs take that same oath (they are trained to raise their paw and bark to say "I do" at the end)!
Sadly so much went wrong. The guy who provided the correct address to swat someone should be in jail with the cop and the moron who called it in. In fact the guy who called it in has a history of this including a bomb threat to a local station and never should have been out of jail to start with.
It is going to come down to if they charge the cop or not if they want to try manslaughter or reckless homicide. They might try to get some federal charges to stick first, though.
"It charges 25-year-old Tyler Barriss, who is facing state court charges including involuntary manslaughter, with false information and hoaxes, cyberstalking, threatening to kill another or damage property by fire, interstate threats, conspiracy and several counts of wire fraud, according to federal court records. One of the gamers -- 18-year-old Casey S. Viner of North College Hill, Ohio -- is charged with several counts of wire fraud, conspiracy, obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice. The other gamer -- 19-year-old Shane M. Gaskill of Wichita -- is charged with several counts of obstruction of justice, wire fraud and conspiracy to obstruct justice."
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
I would say the connection to manslaughter is still too indirect/circumstantial for it to justifiably qualify as manslaughter... not "hands on" enough. If there was a paragraph "manslaughter through third party by negligance" or something like that it would be all good to sentence through that but bending interpretations to fit a desired outcome isn't really what courtrooms should be doing.
it's a very strange limbo between prank and death this case is stuck in. Technically he's still just a prankster (albeit severe) and yet also something more than that at the same time.
You basically just described manslaughter... It's different from murder, which is why it has it's own word.
Comments
And again... what I was arguing against is on the first few pages the broad sweeping comments/name calling etc and negative assumptions about Police. I have always maintained what happend to the victim was tragic
No, but when a policeman is involved in something like this, we do have to have an investigation.
Every police officer who fires their weapon is put on administrative leave until the shooting is looked at. That's standard procedure and perfectly reasonable (they fired for a reason, it's in the public's interest that the officer's superiors know the reason.)
And again... what I was arguing against is on the first few pages the broad sweeping comments/name calling etc and negative assumptions about Police. I have always maintained what happend to the victim was tragic
No, but when a policeman is involved in something like this, we do have to have an investigation.
Every police officer who fires their weapon is put on administrative leave until the shooting is looked at. That's standard procedure and perfectly reasonable (they fired for a reason, it's in the public's interest that the officer's superiors know the reason.)
Yeah he's put on paid vacation until they've concluded their boy was innocent
Even basic statistics on the number of complaints against police are hard to come by. A federal survey found that just 8 percent of the use-of-force complaints received by large state and local law enforcement agencies in 2002 were deemed credible -- they were "sustained," in cop lingo. Most experts who have studied internal affairs think that rate is much lower than it would be if the process weren't in many ways designed to protect officers.
"In Cleveland, where just 51 officers from a force of 1,500 were disciplined "in any fashion in connection with a use of force incident" over 3.5 years, those investigating the use of force admitted to DOJ that they conducted their inquiries with the "goal of casting the accused officer in the most positive light possible."
"The Albuquerque Police Department failed to "implement an objective and rigorous internal accountability system," according to a DOJ report"
"One major hurdle for police accountability is that citizens often don't bother to file complaints because they don't think their concerns would be taken seriously. There is little motivation for police departments to encourage civilians to complain, experts say, and many internal affairs officers either implicitly or explicitly make it difficult for citizens to air their grievances."
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/internal-affairs-police-misconduct_us_5613ea2fe4b022a4ce5f87ce
Thank you, I agree, wth are you arguing exactly Arch?
Can we agree to give him a different shortened name to avoid confusion
Every time somebody calls you arch, I read it in Rob Reiner's voice.
Cartman ever consider that most complaints are completely unfounded?
Do you have any actual data to suggest that more than 50% of complaints against police are "completely unfounded"?
Not getting into a stats war, but the fact that most do not result in charges suggest to me the far more likely conclusion that they are put in as retributive and to deflect the persons crime and suggested by lawyers to deflect at court... rather than a widespread cover up from people at the end of the day that took a job to help...
It doesn't have to be a widespread coverup. Just people who work together looking out for each other.
Not getting into a stats war, but the fact that most do not result in charges suggest to me the far more likely conclusion that they are put in as retributive and to deflect the persons crime and suggested by lawyers to deflect at court... rather than a widespread cover up from people at the end of the day that took a job to help...
I think you aren't nearly as skeptical of things as you should be...
Not getting into a stats war, but the fact that most do not result in charges suggest to me the far more likely conclusion that they are put in as retributive and to deflect the persons crime and suggested by lawyers to deflect at court... rather than a widespread cover up from people at the end of the day that took a job to help...
So when a cop gets great leeway in both interpreting a threat and then having his own people/closely related agency investigate it further it "doesn't suggest much to you". But a civilian who doesn't have that kind of platform, now that is very telling. Despite the fact they had investigators who actually admitted favoritism wich is something that has a direct impact on those numbers being underrepresented.
https://compete.kotaku.com/police-kill-28-year-old-after-prank-swatting-call-1821648110
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-swatting-suspect-20180103-story.html
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
We can only hope. This swatting nonsense needs to stop. And they need to make an example out of this guy to hopefully scare other people from ever doing this shit again. If he gets off with a slap on the wrist, it just shows you can get away with this behavior, and that is dangerous......
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
I would say the connection to manslaughter is still too indirect/circumstantial for it to justifiably qualify as manslaughter... not "hands on" enough. If there was a paragraph "manslaughter through third party by negligance" or something like that it would be all good to sentence through that but bending interpretations to fit a desired outcome isn't really what courtrooms should be doing.
it's a very strange limbo between prank and death this case is stuck in. Technically he's still just a prankster (albeit severe) and yet also something more than that at the same time.
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
I would say the connection to manslaughter is still too indirect/circumstantial for it to justifiably qualify as manslaughter... not "hands on" enough. If there was a paragraph "manslaughter through third party by negligance" or something like that it would be all good to sentence through that but bending interpretations to fit a desired outcome isn't really what courtrooms should be doing.
it's a very strange limbo between prank and death this case is stuck in. Technically he's still just a prankster (albeit severe) and yet also something more than that at the same time.
The settence for falsely accusing someone of a crime should be the same as that crime you are accusing them of.
Add up all his past performances and he should never see the light of day.
I think all anyone is looking for here is some accountability. If this officer was the only one who discharged his weapon why did he feel justified to do so? None of the other people on the team felt the threat was so imminent, and they all have the same training he does. This wasn't a one on one standoff where some gut reaction can get you off for fear of your life.
As a private citizen I'm expected to be held accountable for every single action I take in my day to day, and professional life. If I run a red light I get a ticket. If I murder someone I'm put in jail. If I do my job poorly or incorrectly I get reprimanded or fired.
What makes what this officer did any more passable than what I do? Because he has a badge? Because "he was doing his job"? Because "he is the law"? That's laughable. If anything this officer should be held to a higher standard than anyone else in a circumstance like this. He has more knowledge and experience than any layman, but he made a mistake. And with mistakes come consequences, which I'm sure was something he was fully aware of.
I'm not saying he should get the chair, and I don't think anyone is saying he deserves to rot in a prison cell for the rest of his entire life, although maybe their view of justice is different than mine, but it certainly should be a punishable offense, no two ways about it.
I think there are some pretty serious problems with the American justice system and unless you see how it functions on an everyday basis it may not be as clear. That's not to say Archangel being from Canada makes your opinion invalid, but making those kinds comments without knowing the entire landscape is more or less just as misguided as this cop shooting before the entire situation was assessed.
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
I would say the connection to manslaughter is still too indirect/circumstantial for it to justifiably qualify as manslaughter... not "hands on" enough. If there was a paragraph "manslaughter through third party by negligance" or something like that it would be all good to sentence through that but bending interpretations to fit a desired outcome isn't really what courtrooms should be doing.
it's a very strange limbo between prank and death this case is stuck in. Technically he's still just a prankster (albeit severe) and yet also something more than that at the same time.
Anymore hands on and I would have said 1st or 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter is when a death is caused by indirect action or recklessness.
What makes what this officer did any more passable than what I do? Because he has a badge? Because "he was doing his job"? Because "he is the law"? That's laughable. If anything this officer should be held to a higher standard than anyone else in a circumstance like this. He has more knowledge and experience than any layman, but he made a mistake. And with mistakes come consequences, which I'm sure was something he was fully aware of.
You are absoultely right in one sense and I hope those in law enforcement never forget that they swore an oath to (paraphrase) serve the public trust, protect the innocent, and uphold the law. I mean for Pete's sake their dogs take that same oath (they are trained to raise their paw and bark to say "I do" at the end)!
https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/05/24/050227/gamers-involved-in-fatal-wichita-swatting-indicted-on-federal-charges
"It charges 25-year-old Tyler Barriss, who is facing state court charges including involuntary manslaughter, with false information and hoaxes, cyberstalking, threatening to kill another or damage property by fire, interstate threats, conspiracy and several counts of wire fraud, according to federal court records. One of the gamers -- 18-year-old Casey S. Viner of North College Hill, Ohio -- is charged with several counts of wire fraud, conspiracy, obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice. The other gamer -- 19-year-old Shane M. Gaskill of Wichita -- is charged with several counts of obstruction of justice, wire fraud and conspiracy to obstruct justice."
Charge that fucking scumbag with manslaughter and give him a life sentence.
Maybe that will show all the other shitheads that there are real life consenquences.
I would say the connection to manslaughter is still too indirect/circumstantial for it to justifiably qualify as manslaughter... not "hands on" enough. If there was a paragraph "manslaughter through third party by negligance" or something like that it would be all good to sentence through that but bending interpretations to fit a desired outcome isn't really what courtrooms should be doing.
it's a very strange limbo between prank and death this case is stuck in. Technically he's still just a prankster (albeit severe) and yet also something more than that at the same time.
You basically just described manslaughter... It's different from murder, which is why it has it's own word.