Understanding How To Play on Newer Tv set

demonseeddemonseed
in Help Wanted!
Hey Guys,

I have been away from many years, however getting back into collecting.  I am very very confused with hooking up old systems to new tvs.  I spoke to my wife about a CRT and she is totally against it so that is a no fly zone.  So my next step is trying to understand what options I have for great picture quality on LCD tvs.  I am aware of the OSSC and Frameister units howver I am not sure I can afford the 400$ price tag plus modding numerous consoles.  I would prefer to use simplier mods that are lesss expensive.  I know the quality wont be as good but hey that is ok (for now).  So what I am after is how the heck do I optimze the consoles?  For starters I got my son a N64.  It came with composite cables.  I tried two LCD tvs... one wont work no matter what , the other it works.  On the one that it does work the screen image is stretched and I can not seem to find an option to make it 4x3.. I will try.  I think the N64 supports S-video, that would be an upgrade from composite? 



I am confused with various convertors/upscalers/cables.. I have heard of cheaper ones that you buy on ebay... I heard of older ones lie sony yr1000 or 3000.. what exaclty do these all do?



For now I also want to add NES console and Sega Genesis.  I have heard the Genesis has RGB cable that can connect to a LCD tv, but I know the nes does not.  The RGB mod on NES is like 200! in my area.. I have debated buying a AVS to make it simple.



I have rambled on a lot here.. my question is.. what is the best options to get good images to a new tv in proper format? what upscalers/convertors etc are available that wont wreck the bank  

What cables do I need, what setups work best/easily?



Any other advice??? I would appreciate it.. I feel like a fish in a very muddy pond.....



thanks

Jim

Comments

  • TulpaTulpa
    The best would be (if possible) to upgrade to HDMI consoles. The N64 has the UltraHDMI mod, you know about the AVS already. If you have a standard NES, the HDMI mod is also in the cards.





    What TV do you have and what inputs are there?
  • Bort License PlateBort License Plate
    So if you have any free time, I'd recommend checking out "my life in gaming" on youtube, the majority of their channel is dedicated to this stuff.



    For starters, RGB is the best, then s-video, then composite. You can absolutely use unmodded consoles with composite on a framemeister on an HDTV and it will cut down input lag and not look like complete dogshit. But of course the better cables you have the better picture you get.



    N64 is special in that it basically looks like shit no matter what you do, unless you get it HDMI modded, which is expensive.



    If you dont have a shit ton of consoles to hook up at once, you can get the AVS from RetroUSB for NES games, its an FPGA that runs like original hardware with upscaling and hd and all that.





    There is a lot to learn, every console is different, it entirely depends on your setup and what you want


    Edit: what about a really small CRT?  The one I'm using right now is 18 inches and easy to move/not too intrusive and it only cost $5. I've seen people with closet setups, where you just open the door and there's all your stuff, close it and it's like there's nothing there.
  • themisfit138themisfit138
    If you go the RGB route with a Frameister be aware that good SCART cables are around $50 with shipping. Also you can still find real Nintendo s-video cables from a Japanese seller for fairly cheap, but if you buy them from a North America seller they are most likely double the price.

    And to echo Bert, watch "My Life in Gaming" they explain in detail about the best video options for each system.
  • DefaultGenDefaultGen
    A Framemeiseter/OSSC is like half the cost of modding all your consoles and upgrading all your cables to nice (not Chinese) SCART cables. No sense in going through all the work and cables just to cheap out on the upscaler IMO.



    A cheaper/good enough solution would be to get a video processor that handles 240p (e.g. DVDO Edge, VP50 Pro) then just hook your consoles up with whatever the best cables they natively support is. I think the AVS is a no brainer for NES since the mods on original hardware are pretty expensive and natively it only has composite.
  • IchinisanIchinisan
    Marked for later
  • demonseeddemonseed
    Hey

    Wow great responses!

    I think the Frameister etc is out.. too much modding... (at least right now). I prefer to use what cables they support. That being said I will look into the DVDO Edge etc.. never heard of those.



    For NES I am leaning to AVS.. seems simple.



    My TVS are RCA LCD with a HDMI, Composite, Component, VGA(I think looks like a old monitor plug type thing)...



    I will check out my life in gaming too......

    thanks

    Jim
  • themisfit138themisfit138
    Originally posted by: demonseed



    Hey

    Wow great responses!

    I think the Frameister etc is out.. too much modding... (at least right now). I prefer to use what cables they support. 



    You do not need to mod most older consoles they natively support RGB. Such as Sega Master System, Genesis, Saturn, SNES 1 not model 2, you just need the proper cables.   

     
  • demonseeddemonseed
    I thought for N64 you had to mod it to work in Frameister?

    Also would it help to get SVIDEO cable for N64 and a SVIDEO to HDMI box to connect to my sons tv? would it add lag or add any benefit?
  • TulpaTulpa
    You do. Alternatively, N64 processors output a native digital signal, so the UltraHDMI mod takes advantage of this.
  • themisfit138themisfit138
    N64 can use s-video cables without mods, that is how I play 64 through the Frameister. If you want HDMI out from the N64 then it needs modded.



    A s-video to HDMI converter will most likely add lag, but you might not notice it. It all depends on how sensitive you are to that type stuff.
  • Bort License PlateBort License Plate
    That's where it's better to use framemeister compared to cheaper upscalers, it's a noticeable difference in input lag. If you are planning on hooking up tons of consoles the framemeister makes sense, not so much if you're sticking with a couple and there's other options available
  • demonseeddemonseed
    Ok, so whats the simplest way to connect the N64 to the LCD? I cant do the frememeister right now as they are 400$ US... and I want to buy the AVS first..... suggestions?



    Thanks

    Jim
  • gunpeigunpei
    It sounds like you are like me... picture "quality" is not as important as the shape of the picture (is it not stretched out). And for that from what I have seen you can access this from the menu on any wide TV. It's not always easy but usually is, to find the option for 4:3 or "just scan" or "set by program" somwhere in the picture options. You might have to do something every time you want to change aspect ratios, but you can always do so.



    s-video yes is better quality than composite. As long as the source / cable / display unit all maintain integrity. But N64 outputs to antenna cable, which I think is the simplest option - what issues do you have there?
  • xMaGuSxxMaGuSx
    Your best bet is just using HD retrovision component cables when they become available. They are custom cables that allow certain systems to output through component. Most LED tvs have component still and the picture looks great. 



    They make them for SNES and Genesis. And i believe the SNES cable will work with an RGB modded N64 which you can get on ebay for $100 or less already modded for you.



    Then get an AVS and you have NES, Genesis, SNES, and N64 all hooked up for about what the framemeister would cost you, probably less.
  • themisfit138themisfit138
    The HD Retrovision SNES and Genesis cables have been out of stock since August.
  • demonseeddemonseed
    Hey

    What about a HDMI n64? they seem hard to find though.... then you skip the whole framiester......but looks like they are pricey
  • Bort License PlateBort License Plate
    Ultra HDMI N64 is the best option in terms of quality
  • demonseeddemonseed
    Hey

    How is the XRGB 3? I heard it was very good and noticed they are way cheaper. Would that work? What's the difference between it and the framesiter?

    Thanks

    Jim
  • teh lurvteh lurv
    Originally posted by: demonseed



    Hey

    How is the XRGB 3? I heard it was very good and noticed they are way cheaper. Would that work? What's the difference between it and the framesiter?

    Thanks

    Jim



    system11's Fudoh has a lengthy write-up about the XRGB-3 on his webpage: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/



    But if you don't want to wreck your wallet, a CRT is your best bet. I'd personally recommend getting a 13" CRT, something small you can stash in a closet when not in use. That might pass muster with your wife.



     
  • UKWildcatsUKWildcats
    Originally posted by: demonseed



    Ok, so whats the simplest way to connect the N64 to the LCD? I cant do the frememeister right now as they are 400$ US... and I want to buy the AVS first..... suggestions?



    Thanks

    Jim





    Buy a Hi Def Kit modded NES. It’s the only way to get a 1080p picture. 



    You will love it.
  • xMaGuSxxMaGuSx
    Originally posted by: themisfit138

    The HD Retrovision SNES and Genesis cables have been out of stock since August.





    Yeah that is why i said when they become available. I would imagine a restock should happen soon since its been 6 months.

    Other than that its either plead your case with your wife for a small crt or save up and get an xrgb mini. Even s video looks good through the mini so you dont have to rgb mod consoles if you dont want to.
  • demonseeddemonseed
    Hey yes no go on the crt ( what will hi def modded nes cost? My sons content with n64 for now but if I play I'd like a better picture... he doesn't seem to mind for now. I want to focus on nes and genesis.
  • TDIRunnerTDIRunner
    Originally posted by: xMaGuSx



    Your best bet is just using HD retrovision component cables when they become available. They are custom cables that allow certain systems to output through component. Most LED tvs have component still and the picture looks great. 



    They make them for SNES and Genesis. And i believe the SNES cable will work with an RGB modded N64 which you can get on ebay for $100 or less already modded for you.



    Then get an AVS and you have NES, Genesis, SNES, and N64 all hooked up for about what the framemeister would cost you, probably less.



    The Genesis cable also works with the following systems (with a proper adapter)
    • Sega Master System
    • Sega Saturn
    • Neo Geo AES
    • Neo Geo CD

    I also just read today that they are working on the Sega Dreamcast next.  
  • TulpaTulpa
    For the Hi-def NES, you need an NES if you don't have one already (price varies, call it $50-$60), the kit is $120 or so by itself, and install can be $70-$80 plus shipping unless you know someone local. The kit also has to be in stock. It depends on the modder/supplier, but guys like Mobiusstriptech on here can do it.

    You can also buy an already modded one, but those go for a premium.
  • Bort License PlateBort License Plate
    Does the retron 5 interest you at all? It's fairly cheap, takes several consoles and has HDMI out. It's an emulator box, you put the cart in and it rips the ROM and runs it off an emulator. So you have save states, filters and what not and still use your carts. It works with NES, SNES, Genesis and all the game boys and all the Japanese counterparts. Then you just need something for N64
  • supercoupe91supercoupe91
    How much do you care about original hardware? If you just mainly care about playing the games in good quality, the Super Retro Trio, Retro Freak, or Retron 5 might be good for you. I personally would stay away from the Retron 5 but plenty of others have had better results than me.
  • Boosted52405Boosted52405
    Not sure why the N64 wouldn't work on one of your LCD TV's, it should...even if you only have a Component Input, you can use Composite (most have a diagram next to the plug showing where the R/W/Y wires go). Here is a link/diagram from Nintendo of all places:

    http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3008/~/unable-to-locate-a-yellow-video-input-on-the-tv



    For the stretched picture, there has to be some video settings on your TV to adjust that, I'd definitely recommend playing around with your settings. I recently had my N64 hooked up to a 4K TV and it wasn't too bad, just a tiny bit laggy.
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