Well now wait a second, when I was at college (early 2000s) we had neighbors with two daughters (around 11 and 8 ish at the time) who practically would BEG to stay overnight with us...and yes when they did do so (when I was home on vacation or something) they slept in my bedroom (the only other bedroom we had was my parents) and yes they slept on the floor while I slept in my bed. So I guess by the standards of some of you I guess that makes me a perv too?
At a minimum, it makes you really bad at risk management...
x2
If I had neighbors like that staying over, they could have my bed while I slept on the couch. No way am I setting myself up for some bullshit.
Well now wait a second, when I was at college (early 2000s) we had neighbors with two daughters (around 11 and 8 ish at the time) who practically would BEG to stay overnight with us...and yes when they did do so (when I was home on vacation or something) they slept in my bedroom (the only other bedroom we had was my parents) and yes they slept on the floor while I slept in my bed. So I guess by the standards of some of you I guess that makes me a perv too?
At a minimum, it makes you really bad at risk management...
x2
If I had neighbors like that staying over, they could have my bed while I slept on the couch. No way am I setting myself up for some bullshit.
Unless they were sleeping over with a kid their own age (not KIND OF kind of their own age, but ACTUALLY their own age, or at least same-grade), I can't imagine a non-emergency scenario where I'd ever let them sleep over in the first place.
Family-emergency scenario would be different, where the neighbor needs to offload the kids to spend the night at the hospital, for instance.
But even then, letting two non-family children sleep in the same bedroom as a college-aged male would be really poor judgment.
Rich has been giving me shit about it since it came out. I love Michael. He is really was and is my only real idol. I haven't watched leaving neverland yet. I doubt it's going to change my opinion.
A few years back I read a book by frank cascio who was another boy who stayed with Michael often. He claimed it all to be Bullshit too.
I really dislike this whole post mortem smear campaign. Especially when you consider Elvis bedding and wedding a 14 year old
Not to mention Elvis had his own sleepovers (to be fair though he didn't marry or consumate the relationship with Priscilla until she was 21). And regarding Cosby (I don't know that much about his situation other than he does have all those allegations against him) he was convicted in a court of law for at least some of it...so in his case was there in fact good evidence to back up some of the allegations, enough (I hope!) to prove beyond a reasonable doubt?
In fact I had jury duty back in 2004-05 for a local muder trial (I didn't make the final jury cut) and they made very clear among other things that an accusation/indictment in of itself is not evidence against the accused.
Well now wait a second, when I was at college (early 2000s) we had neighbors with two daughters (around 11 and 8 ish at the time) who practically would BEG to stay overnight with us...and yes when they did do so (when I was home on vacation or something) they slept in my bedroom (the only other bedroom we had was my parents) and yes they slept on the floor while I slept in my bed. So I guess by the standards of some of you I guess that makes me a perv too?
You're a self described "cat dad", you got enough problems as it is
And the difference I’m sure between you and Michael Jackson, if there is only one, is that you don’t have a choo choo train in the back yard that stations in a diddle dungeon!
Just the two latest accusers, in a long line of peoplechildrenboyspreteen boys "cute" preteen boys that have indeed slept in his bed with him. A totally normal thing that non-predators do. And even if he didn't touch them, which he almost assuredly did, he was still warping them. Boundaries are being broken.
Michael Jackson was getting off with somebody all of those years. And it sure wasn't with any woman, and it doesn't seem like he was much for boyfriends.
MJ has children, therefore, he had sex with a woman, therefore, he's straight. Also he was married to Elvis's daughter, who was also a woman
And dude... my buddy kyles dad had three kids and his wife. And left her for his new husband right before we went to middle school. Gay dudes marry women to mask they are gay (aka “beard” ) everyday. Since marriage began.
Speaking of which, how come MJ's children weren't put in foster care pending the outcome of the 2005 trial? I mean if he really was this potential child molester/abuser that he was indicted for...
Forgive me for my lack of legal knowledge or training but is that was is meant by "probable cause" (fourth highest standard of proof)? That whoever issues the arrest warrant believes that based on the evidence, the arrestee probably did it...hence the name?
Because the rich and powerful have teams of elite lawyers
Didn't seem to help that Subway guy any...
I don't think he is rich or powerful, especially compared to Michael Jackson who is easily one of the most famous people of the last 100 years in the entertainment industry.
Well he sure was on track to be one of the most famous people! Jared would've been right up there with Ronald McDonald and Dave Thomas had he not succumbed to the REALLY Dark Side.
And you know how even after the 1993 incident (and of course much more so after 2005) MJ was never really quite the same both personally and professionally? Well that's not exactly the first time a situation like that occured...
Well now wait a second, when I was at college (early 2000s) we had neighbors with two daughters (around 11 and 8 ish at the time) who practically would BEG to stay overnight with us...and yes when they did do so (when I was home on vacation or something) they slept in my bedroom (the only other bedroom we had was my parents) and yes they slept on the floor while I slept in my bed. So I guess by the standards of some of you I guess that makes me a perv too?
That's fucked up. But it could be worse. It could have been a long line of little girls, who stayed in your bed with you for up to 30 days at a time. And your bedroom could have been wired with video and alarms to alert you whenever anybody was about to walk in. Also, you could have had a stash of pornography and child pornography that you shared with them.
Perhaps...but it was more along the lines of I kept hearing that phrase "MJ sharing his bed with boys" and I could've sworn he said "he slept on the floor and they slept in his giant bed or vice versa". It seemed like the media was using the terms interchangeably as if they were the same thing.
And that allegation of MJ allegedly showing adult magazines to children...was that ever really confirmed/proven in any way?
PS: For the record I never really cared much for pornography. I'm not really against it or find anything really wrong with it as such...it just doesn't really do anything for me one way or the other.
Perhaps...but it was more along the lines of I kept hearing that phrase "MJ sharing his bed with boys" and I could've sworn he said "he slept on the floor and they slept in his giant bed or vice versa". It seemed like the media was using the terms interchangeably as if they were the same thing.
And that allegation of MJ allegedly showing adult magazines to children...was that ever really confirmed/proven in any way?
PS: For the record I never really cared much for pornography. I'm not really against it or find anything really wrong with it as such...it just doesn't really do anything for me one way or the other.
Let me ask you this, would you leave your cat with him?
I never let my cat leave my apartment (except when he tries running down the hallway outside my apartment!!)...the ASPCA does say cats ideally should stay indoors only.
Forgive me for my lack of legal knowledge or training but is that was is meant by "probable cause" (fourth highest standard of proof)? That whoever issues the arrest warrant believes that based on the evidence, the arrestee probably did it...hence the name?
I'm not well versed in the law by any stretch, I just think he's guilty of what he's accused of. I've also never seen the documentary.
And that was my original issue with the documentary all along...it's just the same ol' allegations we've known about since 1993...and once again very little if anything really concrete to back them up. Mostly just their word against well...not their word (for lack of better term).
As far as what I said about in the 2005 trial feeling like both sides cases were rather weak? Well why on the prosecution side well, everyone knows that part. But as far as MJ goes he sure didn't make himself look very good doing things like showing up late to court and/or in his pj bottoms...not to mention that whole showing off for his fans on top of a car.
Most of all watching the doc let me understand a bit more about how life went on for MJ.
Rotating these boys in and out after a few months. They would live there with him. Sleep in the bed with him.
4 have accused him.
So are there any boys left who lived there and slept with him for months straight that still maintain his innocence?
They didn't live with him, but Corey Feldman and the Culkins were (past tense) his staunchest defenders. They were also by far the biggest stars and probably too risky for him to move in on. Feldman may have also been too early on, before he had graduated to full blown molestation.
Ironically neither Feldman nor Corey Haim said shit about any of the many dudes that raped them throughout the '80s until fairly recently. They even lived with a number of the rapists, because when you're a kid and so fucked up in the head by the experiences that you're incapable of making decisions that seem logical.
I don't know whether MJ is guilty or not. His behavior is definitely suspicious but he's not here to defend himself. I could see it both possibilities, maybe his abusive/weird childhood resulted in this stunted brain development where he was still mentally/emotionally like a child, or maybe that was just a manifestation of child predator behaviors. But the documentary is clearly a one-sided hit job and the accusers are FAR from reliable given their past contradictory testimonies and money grabbing schemes.
A big problem with trying to make an opinion on this is that there is a lot of money involved. I'm sure when Michael Jackson was alive he had a well paid marketing team around him. These are the same type of people who work for politicians to spin. I mean it took people with money like six months to convince many Americans its okay to push a coup in Venezuela. I don't think it would be hard to create doubt in peoples minds regarding a beloved public figure.
There are just too many odd things are in this story:
Childlike mind but genius.
Let children sleep in bed.
Lied about his adopted childrens birth.
Accused by multiple people of molestation
Irregular adult relationships.
Junkie.
It could be the easiest answer; maybe he acts like a weirdo because he likes to rape little kids and society says its wrong.
A big problem with trying to make an opinion on this is that there is a lot of money involved. I'm sure when Michael Jackson was alive he had a well paid marketing team around him. These are the same type of people who work for politicians to spin. I mean it took people with money like six months to convince many Americans its okay to push a coup in Venezuela. I don't think it would be hard to create doubt in peoples minds regarding a beloved public figure.
There are just too many odd things are in this story:
Childlike mind but genius.
Let children sleep in bed.
Lied about his adopted childrens birth.
Accussed by multiple people of molestation
Irregular adult relationships.
Junkie.
It could be the easiest answer; maybe he acts like a weirdo because he likes to rape little kids and society says its wrong.
Have you ever met someone mentally off, like autistic or someone on the spectrum?
There's a couple of them at my gym and they'd hit several of those bullets by just being someone with a mental disorder. Such as childlike mind, socially awkward (irregular adult relationships), borderline harassing / molesting the female clientele, etc.
I don't care about either side of this argument but it's obvious that Michael Jackson wasn't "all there" mentally. I'd hope both sides can kind of agree on that.
A big problem with trying to make an opinion on this is that there is a lot of money involved. I'm sure when Michael Jackson was alive he had a well paid marketing team around him. These are the same type of people who work for politicians to spin. I mean it took people with money like six months to convince many Americans its okay to push a coup in Venezuela. I don't think it would be hard to create doubt in peoples minds regarding a beloved public figure.
There are just too many odd things are in this story:
Childlike mind but genius.
Let children sleep in bed.
Lied about his adopted childrens birth.
Accussed by multiple people of molestation
Irregular adult relationships.
Junkie.
It could be the easiest answer; maybe he acts like a weirdo because he likes to rape little kids and society says its wrong.
Have you ever met someone mentally off, like autistic or someone on the spectrum?
There's a couple of them at my gym and they'd hit several of those bullets by just being someone with a mental disorder. Such as childlike mind, socially awkward (irregular adult relationships), borderline harassing / molesting the female clientele, etc.
I don't care about either side of this argument but it's obvious that Michael Jackson wasn't "all there" mentally. I'd hope both sides can kind of agree on that.
That's an incredible stretch you're trying to make there.
And that was my original issue with the documentary all along...it's just the same ol' allegations we've known about since 1993...and once again very little if anything really concrete to back them up. Mostly just their word against well...not their word (for lack of better term).
What would qualify in your opinion? Should they have had cameras?
Comments
Well now wait a second, when I was at college (early 2000s) we had neighbors with two daughters (around 11 and 8 ish at the time) who practically would BEG to stay overnight with us...and yes when they did do so (when I was home on vacation or something) they slept in my bedroom (the only other bedroom we had was my parents) and yes they slept on the floor while I slept in my bed. So I guess by the standards of some of you I guess that makes me a perv too?
At a minimum, it makes you really bad at risk management...
x2
If I had neighbors like that staying over, they could have my bed while I slept on the couch. No way am I setting myself up for some bullshit.
Well now wait a second, when I was at college (early 2000s) we had neighbors with two daughters (around 11 and 8 ish at the time) who practically would BEG to stay overnight with us...and yes when they did do so (when I was home on vacation or something) they slept in my bedroom (the only other bedroom we had was my parents) and yes they slept on the floor while I slept in my bed. So I guess by the standards of some of you I guess that makes me a perv too?
At a minimum, it makes you really bad at risk management...
x2
If I had neighbors like that staying over, they could have my bed while I slept on the couch. No way am I setting myself up for some bullshit.
Unless they were sleeping over with a kid their own age (not KIND OF kind of their own age, but ACTUALLY their own age, or at least same-grade), I can't imagine a non-emergency scenario where I'd ever let them sleep over in the first place.
Family-emergency scenario would be different, where the neighbor needs to offload the kids to spend the night at the hospital, for instance.
But even then, letting two non-family children sleep in the same bedroom as a college-aged male would be really poor judgment.
Here's a 3 part YT doc on the whole MJ thing from the 90s case till now. Crude but he has some valid points.
A few years back I read a book by frank cascio who was another boy who stayed with Michael often. He claimed it all to be Bullshit too.
I really dislike this whole post mortem smear campaign. Especially when you consider Elvis bedding and wedding a 14 year old
In fact I had jury duty back in 2004-05 for a local muder trial (I didn't make the final jury cut) and they made very clear among other things that an accusation/indictment in of itself is not evidence against the accused.
Idk for some reason they didn't seem credible and I hate saying that but it just seemed off to me
And the bro/sister/wife/moms kinda just placed there
That one mother saying when she heard he die was like 'good for him' I'm like bitch what type of mother does what you did
All good when money is there but soon as it isn't , you do your thing.
Just looks to me that money/fame was always there for these ppl, without giving a f of what was going on
In the 2nd part one of the guys says he was a teen and mj tried something on him, idk but wtf
Wouldn't by now being 14 would be like this shit ain't right and not tell anyone?
and also conveniently destroying the evidence about it?
He mentioned he got a camera too that day, fuck would've recorded something to have evidence. ( recorded the item he mentioned to destroy )
Mj def was weird, and I wonder if he ever had a psychiatrist ( cause he should've for yrs)
He had issues and a lot of people used him and I bet he learned from that too
Even in his death a damn doctor using him leading to his death.
Well now wait a second, when I was at college (early 2000s) we had neighbors with two daughters (around 11 and 8 ish at the time) who practically would BEG to stay overnight with us...and yes when they did do so (when I was home on vacation or something) they slept in my bedroom (the only other bedroom we had was my parents) and yes they slept on the floor while I slept in my bed. So I guess by the standards of some of you I guess that makes me a perv too?
You're a self described "cat dad", you got enough problems as it is
And the difference I’m sure between you and Michael Jackson, if there is only one, is that you don’t have a choo choo train in the back yard that stations in a diddle dungeon!
Just the two latest accusers, in a long line of people children boys preteen boys "cute" preteen boys that have indeed slept in his bed with him. A totally normal thing that non-predators do. And even if he didn't touch them, which he almost assuredly did, he was still warping them. Boundaries are being broken.
Michael Jackson was getting off with somebody all of those years. And it sure wasn't with any woman, and it doesn't seem like he was much for boyfriends.
MJ has children, therefore, he had sex with a woman, therefore, he's straight. Also he was married to Elvis's daughter, who was also a woman
And dude... my buddy kyles dad had three kids and his wife. And left her for his new husband right before we went to middle school. Gay dudes marry women to mask they are gay (aka “beard” ) everyday. Since marriage began.
Because the rich and powerful have teams of elite lawyers
Didn't seem to help that Subway guy any...
Probably guilty.
Forgive me for my lack of legal knowledge or training but is that was is meant by "probable cause" (fourth highest standard of proof)? That whoever issues the arrest warrant believes that based on the evidence, the arrestee probably did it...hence the name?
Because the rich and powerful have teams of elite lawyers
Didn't seem to help that Subway guy any...
I don't think he is rich or powerful, especially compared to Michael Jackson who is easily one of the most famous people of the last 100 years in the entertainment industry.
And you know how even after the 1993 incident (and of course much more so after 2005) MJ was never really quite the same both personally and professionally? Well that's not exactly the first time a situation like that occured...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Arbuckle
Because the rich and powerful have teams of elite lawyers
Didn't seem to help that Subway guy any...
Some predators are dumber than others.
Well now wait a second, when I was at college (early 2000s) we had neighbors with two daughters (around 11 and 8 ish at the time) who practically would BEG to stay overnight with us...and yes when they did do so (when I was home on vacation or something) they slept in my bedroom (the only other bedroom we had was my parents) and yes they slept on the floor while I slept in my bed. So I guess by the standards of some of you I guess that makes me a perv too?
That's fucked up. But it could be worse. It could have been a long line of little girls, who stayed in your bed with you for up to 30 days at a time. And your bedroom could have been wired with video and alarms to alert you whenever anybody was about to walk in. Also, you could have had a stash of pornography and child pornography that you shared with them.
You see where I'm going with this?
And that allegation of MJ allegedly showing adult magazines to children...was that ever really confirmed/proven in any way?
PS: For the record I never really cared much for pornography. I'm not really against it or find anything really wrong with it as such...it just doesn't really do anything for me one way or the other.
They shared beds. Something neither of his "wives" ever did. Think about that.
Perhaps...but it was more along the lines of I kept hearing that phrase "MJ sharing his bed with boys" and I could've sworn he said "he slept on the floor and they slept in his giant bed or vice versa". It seemed like the media was using the terms interchangeably as if they were the same thing.
And that allegation of MJ allegedly showing adult magazines to children...was that ever really confirmed/proven in any way?
PS: For the record I never really cared much for pornography. I'm not really against it or find anything really wrong with it as such...it just doesn't really do anything for me one way or the other.
Let me ask you this, would you leave your cat with him?
Probably guilty.
Forgive me for my lack of legal knowledge or training but is that was is meant by "probable cause" (fourth highest standard of proof)? That whoever issues the arrest warrant believes that based on the evidence, the arrestee probably did it...hence the name?
I'm not well versed in the law by any stretch, I just think he's guilty of what he's accused of. I've also never seen the documentary.
As far as what I said about in the 2005 trial feeling like both sides cases were rather weak? Well why on the prosecution side well, everyone knows that part. But as far as MJ goes he sure didn't make himself look very good doing things like showing up late to court and/or in his pj bottoms...not to mention that whole showing off for his fans on top of a car.
Rotating these boys in and out after a few months. They would live there with him. Sleep in the bed with him.
4 have accused him.
So are there any boys left who lived there and slept with him for months straight that still maintain his innocence?
Most of all watching the doc let me understand a bit more about how life went on for MJ.
Rotating these boys in and out after a few months. They would live there with him. Sleep in the bed with him.
4 have accused him.
So are there any boys left who lived there and slept with him for months straight that still maintain his innocence?
They didn't live with him, but Corey Feldman and the Culkins were (past tense) his staunchest defenders. They were also by far the biggest stars and probably too risky for him to move in on. Feldman may have also been too early on, before he had graduated to full blown molestation.
Ironically neither Feldman nor Corey Haim said shit about any of the many dudes that raped them throughout the '80s until fairly recently. They even lived with a number of the rapists, because when you're a kid and so fucked up in the head by the experiences that you're incapable of making decisions that seem logical.
There are just too many odd things are in this story:
Childlike mind but genius.
Let children sleep in bed.
Lied about his adopted childrens birth.
Accused by multiple people of molestation
Irregular adult relationships.
Junkie.
It could be the easiest answer; maybe he acts like a weirdo because he likes to rape little kids and society says its wrong.
A big problem with trying to make an opinion on this is that there is a lot of money involved. I'm sure when Michael Jackson was alive he had a well paid marketing team around him. These are the same type of people who work for politicians to spin. I mean it took people with money like six months to convince many Americans its okay to push a coup in Venezuela. I don't think it would be hard to create doubt in peoples minds regarding a beloved public figure.
There are just too many odd things are in this story:
Childlike mind but genius.
Let children sleep in bed.
Lied about his adopted childrens birth.
Accussed by multiple people of molestation
Irregular adult relationships.
Junkie.
It could be the easiest answer; maybe he acts like a weirdo because he likes to rape little kids and society says its wrong.
Have you ever met someone mentally off, like autistic or someone on the spectrum?
There's a couple of them at my gym and they'd hit several of those bullets by just being someone with a mental disorder. Such as childlike mind, socially awkward (irregular adult relationships), borderline harassing / molesting the female clientele, etc.
I don't care about either side of this argument but it's obvious that Michael Jackson wasn't "all there" mentally. I'd hope both sides can kind of agree on that.
Originally posted by: jonebone
Originally posted by: CaliforniaGamingSD
A big problem with trying to make an opinion on this is that there is a lot of money involved. I'm sure when Michael Jackson was alive he had a well paid marketing team around him. These are the same type of people who work for politicians to spin. I mean it took people with money like six months to convince many Americans its okay to push a coup in Venezuela. I don't think it would be hard to create doubt in peoples minds regarding a beloved public figure.
There are just too many odd things are in this story:
Childlike mind but genius.
Let children sleep in bed.
Lied about his adopted childrens birth.
Accussed by multiple people of molestation
Irregular adult relationships.
Junkie.
It could be the easiest answer; maybe he acts like a weirdo because he likes to rape little kids and society says its wrong.
Have you ever met someone mentally off, like autistic or someone on the spectrum?
There's a couple of them at my gym and they'd hit several of those bullets by just being someone with a mental disorder. Such as childlike mind, socially awkward (irregular adult relationships), borderline harassing / molesting the female clientele, etc.
I don't care about either side of this argument but it's obvious that Michael Jackson wasn't "all there" mentally. I'd hope both sides can kind of agree on that.
That's an incredible stretch you're trying to make there.
And that was my original issue with the documentary all along...it's just the same ol' allegations we've known about since 1993...and once again very little if anything really concrete to back them up. Mostly just their word against well...not their word (for lack of better term).
What would qualify in your opinion? Should they have had cameras?