Delay could be one aspect. Quality of picture is usually another. The converters tend not to have the best scaling circuitry. Might as well have the TV do the scaling in most cases if it has RCA inputs.
No. You'll be better off just plugging the RCA or RF cable directly into the TV if it supports it. You'll get the same image quality/input delay without paying for another link in the chain.
As mentioned above, connecting to your flat screen via RF/RCA input is probably better. If your TV has a "game mode" that might reduce the amount of image manipulation.
Your end result would be a digital signal coming out of the board, being converted to a crap analogue signal (on the board), hitting your converter and being converted back to a digital HDMI signal, finally hitting the television. That will look terrible, modifying your console using a HDMI kit instead will take digital output from the board and directly pas it to the HDMI digital output. No analogue conversion taking place.
The correct device would reduce input lag for older consoles like NES and SNES. Something like a Retro Tink or Framemeister would be faster than your TV processing a 240p signal. My Framemeister is a frame faster than my TV trying to deinterlace the composite video. A Retro Tink would be even faster.
To be clear for 240p video on my TV:
Composite -- TV: 4 frames of input lag
Composite -- Framemeister -- TV: 3 frames input lag, even with the FM adding 22ms additional input lag.
I wouldn't want to use composite video anything because it's 2019, but with a line doubler or fast scaler delay is not your problem.
You're going to shell out big bucks to get a standalone converter that offers any improvement over letting your tv do it. And that's assuming your tv sucks to start with. I have a Sony now and a Samsung before that both handle composite signals very well and negligible input lag. Stay away from off brands and bargain price TV's and you'll be fine.
Unless you're going to use a Framemeister or OSSC, I wouldn't even bother. And certainly, don't expect much out of composite. S-Video should be minimum, with RGB being ideal. Obviously, you'd need to mod an NES for either.
On my snes, when I use a flatscreen, I'll do it with a SCART to hdmi converter. They sell a cheap Chinese one on eBay for like $30 and it works pretty good. Minimal lag.
It's not gonna be as good as the high end stuff, but you get what you pay for. It looks way better than if you just plug in the rca connections... but your results versus the TVs built in rca to digital conversion will vary depending on your tv model.
For my tv it's worth it. I think limited run games sells a snes cable for modern TVs now, but I haven't checked it out since my current setup is good enough for me
RCA to HDMI tends to convert poorly and react poorly both visually and in performance too. If you want your classics to hang in there longer, look and sound stunning more than ever, you get HDMI update like the internet stuff HiDefNES Kit, UltraHDMI, a SuperNT enter new thing, or go with like the various versions of GC2HDMI on the outside for the Cube.
Cable (if you are willing to spend more they have ones with more shielding for less interference, but if you are gonna spend big, you may as well just look at a higher quality solution)
No. A converter doesn't upscale and the quality will be the same or worse. Put crap in, get crap out.
Huh?
They DO upscale and some absolutely can improve the quality. If your TV mishandles 240p (like tha VAST majority) then a RetroTink 2X will scale to 480p and the quality will be improved versus a direct connection... possibly lower latency too since the TV will no longer try to deinterlace it.
The typical $20 converters also upscale but, like the vast majority of TVs, they do it improperly for 240p consoles. It's literally the same scaler chip that goes inside most TVs. There is absolutely zero point to using one if your TV already has the equivalent analog input since it just adds latency (double-scaled). For SNES and others that means they will first deinterlace a non-interlaced image, destroying 60hz effects like (simulated transparency) and causing a needless blur when scrolling. At least some TVs do properly handle 240p on their analog inputs (some Samsung, Sony, etc), but NONE of those $20-$30 generic converters do. It would be big news if they did.
Cable (if you are willing to spend more they have ones with more shielding for less interference, but if you are gonna spend big, you may as well just look at a higher quality solution)
(I think that framemeister is no longer a feasible option since it costs more than the Analogue and it relies on old snes hardware)
Those Pound cables are the exact same thing as the generic scalers/converters except they are powered off the console and only work with the consoles they are made for. Somewhat laughably, Pound got their Genesis cable all wrong while they were at it, and you couldn't even use your own Genesis cable with it. Now, Pound/Hyperkin/Xtreme are all making some where they require USB power, so they are losing even that one small potential advantage.
There were a bunch of guys on FB getting excited when they realized you could "mod" the Pound/Hyperkin cables to connect to other consoles. They were literally just turning them back into generic scalers and paying more with added effort to boot! Geniuses, let me tell ya.
I run an neotek composite to hdmi. It's fine for what it is.
All of my TVs and projector are 2016+. None of them can understand 240p and won't run N64/Saturn/Genesis very well. So my options are either:
1) New HDMI consoles
2) Mod every console
3) Upscaler
The upscaler is the cheapest solution. It's not the best, but will do for now. I haven't noticed any lag and the only issue I have is image quality. For instance, in Ghost n Ghouls(genesis) it's easier to read the text at 240p. But, with the upscaler it's harder and more pixelated. Mine goes straight to 720p or 1080p, so no 480p option. Considering it's being used on 80s to early 00s tech...it's fine for me until I upgrade to the poly of FPGA. Mine cost, I think, $15? A framemeister is around $300+? An OSSC is $150+? With both requiring additional steps while the converter is just composite-hdmi.
I have an AV-HDMI converter that I use with my N64. The games came out nice and I didn't experience any lag on it. It was an el cheapo so I'd have to unplug/replug it in occasionally to get the sound to work right, but it's good enough for now.
I run an neotek composite to hdmi. It's fine for what it is.
All of my TVs and projector are 2016+. None of them can understand 240p and won't run N64/Saturn/Genesis very well. So my options are either:
1) New HDMI consoles
2) Mod every console
3) Upscaler
The upscaler is the cheapest solution. It's not the best, but will do for now. I haven't noticed any lag and the only issue I have is image quality. For instance, in Ghost n Ghouls(genesis) it's easier to read the text at 240p. But, with the upscaler it's harder and more pixelated. Mine goes straight to 720p or 1080p, so no 480p option. Considering it's being used on 80s to early 00s tech...it's fine for me until I upgrade to the poly of FPGA. Mine cost, I think, $15? A framemeister is around $300+? An OSSC is $150+? With both requiring additional steps while the converter is just composite-hdmi.
Do you have a flash cart or any system you can burn 240p Test Suite for? I can almost guarantee you that it fails to handle 240p properly and treats it as 480i, essentially deinterlacing non-interlaced content and destroying 60hz effects. If anything under $100 did it then it would be big news since it would undercut RetroTink 2X and OSSC.
Originally posted by: Space Jockey
I have an AV-HDMI converter that I use with my N64. The games came out nice and I didn't experience any lag on it. It was an el cheapo so I'd have to unplug/replug it in occasionally to get the sound to work right, but it's good enough for now.
There was lag and you did experience it though you may not have noticed it. All this means is that you aren’t very sensitive to it, since it’s one of the worst case scenarios for lag (double-scaling).
Comments
lol
To be clear for 240p video on my TV:
Composite -- TV: 4 frames of input lag
Composite -- Framemeister -- TV: 3 frames input lag, even with the FM adding 22ms additional input lag.
I wouldn't want to use composite video anything because it's 2019, but with a line doubler or fast scaler delay is not your problem.
It's not gonna be as good as the high end stuff, but you get what you pay for. It looks way better than if you just plug in the rca connections... but your results versus the TVs built in rca to digital conversion will vary depending on your tv model.
For my tv it's worth it. I think limited run games sells a snes cable for modern TVs now, but I haven't checked it out since my current setup is good enough for me
https://limitedrungames.com/products/pound-technology-snes-hdmi-cable
Option 2:
Converter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCART-HDMI-to-HDMI-720P-1080P-HD-Video-Converter-Adapter-Monitor-For-DVD-STB-PS3/254219463997?var=&hash=item3b30a92d3d
Cable (if you are willing to spend more they have ones with more shielding for less interference, but if you are gonna spend big, you may as well just look at a higher quality solution)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-Scart-Cable-for-SNES-GameCube-N64-NTSC-Converter-Sync-Super-Nintendo-64-A291/113803311677?hash=item1a7f34ba3d:g:2AYAAOSw7ytdGa5q
Option 3:
Scrap the snes and get a Analogue Super NT
(I think that framemeister is no longer a feasible option since it costs more than the Analogue and it relies on old snes hardware)
No. A converter doesn't upscale and the quality will be the same or worse. Put crap in, get crap out.
Huh?
They DO upscale and some absolutely can improve the quality. If your TV mishandles 240p (like tha VAST majority) then a RetroTink 2X will scale to 480p and the quality will be improved versus a direct connection... possibly lower latency too since the TV will no longer try to deinterlace it.
The typical $20 converters also upscale but, like the vast majority of TVs, they do it improperly for 240p consoles. It's literally the same scaler chip that goes inside most TVs. There is absolutely zero point to using one if your TV already has the equivalent analog input since it just adds latency (double-scaled). For SNES and others that means they will first deinterlace a non-interlaced image, destroying 60hz effects like (simulated transparency) and causing a needless blur when scrolling. At least some TVs do properly handle 240p on their analog inputs (some Samsung, Sony, etc), but NONE of those $20-$30 generic converters do. It would be big news if they did.
Option 1: (I haven't tested this myself)
https://limitedrungames.com/produ...
Option 2:
Converter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCART-HD...
Cable (if you are willing to spend more they have ones with more shielding for less interference, but if you are gonna spend big, you may as well just look at a higher quality solution)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-Scar...
Option 3:
Scrap the snes and get a Analogue Super NT
(I think that framemeister is no longer a feasible option since it costs more than the Analogue and it relies on old snes hardware)
Those Pound cables are the exact same thing as the generic scalers/converters except they are powered off the console and only work with the consoles they are made for. Somewhat laughably, Pound got their Genesis cable all wrong while they were at it, and you couldn't even use your own Genesis cable with it. Now, Pound/Hyperkin/Xtreme are all making some where they require USB power, so they are losing even that one small potential advantage.
There were a bunch of guys on FB getting excited when they realized you could "mod" the Pound/Hyperkin cables to connect to other consoles. They were literally just turning them back into generic scalers and paying more with added effort to boot! Geniuses, let me tell ya.
All of my TVs and projector are 2016+. None of them can understand 240p and won't run N64/Saturn/Genesis very well. So my options are either:
1) New HDMI consoles
2) Mod every console
3) Upscaler
The upscaler is the cheapest solution. It's not the best, but will do for now. I haven't noticed any lag and the only issue I have is image quality. For instance, in Ghost n Ghouls(genesis) it's easier to read the text at 240p. But, with the upscaler it's harder and more pixelated. Mine goes straight to 720p or 1080p, so no 480p option. Considering it's being used on 80s to early 00s tech...it's fine for me until I upgrade to the poly of FPGA. Mine cost, I think, $15? A framemeister is around $300+? An OSSC is $150+? With both requiring additional steps while the converter is just composite-hdmi.
I run an neotek composite to hdmi. It's fine for what it is.
All of my TVs and projector are 2016+. None of them can understand 240p and won't run N64/Saturn/Genesis very well. So my options are either:
1) New HDMI consoles
2) Mod every console
3) Upscaler
The upscaler is the cheapest solution. It's not the best, but will do for now. I haven't noticed any lag and the only issue I have is image quality. For instance, in Ghost n Ghouls(genesis) it's easier to read the text at 240p. But, with the upscaler it's harder and more pixelated. Mine goes straight to 720p or 1080p, so no 480p option. Considering it's being used on 80s to early 00s tech...it's fine for me until I upgrade to the poly of FPGA. Mine cost, I think, $15? A framemeister is around $300+? An OSSC is $150+? With both requiring additional steps while the converter is just composite-hdmi.
Do you have a flash cart or any system you can burn 240p Test Suite for? I can almost guarantee you that it fails to handle 240p properly and treats it as 480i, essentially deinterlacing non-interlaced content and destroying 60hz effects. If anything under $100 did it then it would be big news since it would undercut RetroTink 2X and OSSC.
I have an AV-HDMI converter that I use with my N64. The games came out nice and I didn't experience any lag on it. It was an el cheapo so I'd have to unplug/replug it in occasionally to get the sound to work right, but it's good enough for now.
There was lag and you did experience it though you may not have noticed it. All this means is that you aren’t very sensitive to it, since it’s one of the worst case scenarios for lag (double-scaling).