I don't know if aliens exist but universe is infinite for sure, so the chance for them to exist are infinite too?
Exactly.
To think that we are the only form of life in a universe that we haven't even understood the scope of yet is ingnorant at best.
I watched the Bob Lazar doc.... was cool. Slept through most of it, though. Will watch again.
Been a "believer" for a long time. Obviously? I find it wild when people think humans are so awesome and MUST be the only life in the universe, haha, so very narrow minded....
Idk there are some wild videos out there...sure some are probably doctored. I do believe in the Roswell Incident and Area 51 and would say there is a better chance of life out there than the chance of there not being life out there.
But hey I'm a 9/11 theorist as well so don't let my "crazy" mind get too deep on this.
I don't know if aliens exist but universe is infinite for sure, so the chance for them to exist are infinite too?
Proof the universe is infinite?
Current theory expects it to be, but it’s not 100% certain and impossible to prove.
That is kind of a block stone argument for scientists, creationist or anyone really. If universe is finite then what's after when it ends because it can't be nothing or absense of anything but if so, then the existance of the universe had a beginning? Then how come something can begin when there was nothing at all to begin with? If you desagree and accept that universe is infinite and always existed, and had no beginging to begin with then you would be inclined that some sort of creater is outthere too who had no begining but if he had then who created him? I will stop there...
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
We as humans are really sure (with good reason) about stuff like conservation of energy, no FTL travel, and other laws of physics that prevent contact with beings unfathomably far away. But sometimes I imagine some alien race discovering a Voyager spacecraft, decoding the golden record, and being really confused about how such a thing could have arrived at their door, based on their incorrect understanding of physics, due to their fundamentally different genetic makeup, means of perceiving reality, etc. And then of course I imagine the same thing happening to us. What if there's some way to bypass things we consider to be universal constants, and what if it's obvious to alien species?
There was, is or will be life elsewhere than on Earth, but it might not be ever observable. Given the sheer size of the universe and our current knowledge of physics, we could start catching glimpses of a full blown civilization would it have perished eons ago already so any interaction seems impossible.
If we're talking carbon-based life forms, then bacterial or fungus is likely.
Sentient is much less likely, but we're here ourselves so the odds can be beaten.
We have to keep in mind that we are also a huge colonly of presumably non-sentient living cells that are completely unaware of what the whole system (our body) is up to, so there're chances that we are also an abysmally small, functionning organism that's part of something far bigger and complex than we can comprehend, which would mean there are other living parts to this system. It's neat to think about this stuff.
I don't know if aliens exist but universe is infinite for sure, so the chance for them to exist are infinite too?
Proof the universe is infinite?
Current theory expects it to be, but it’s not 100% certain and impossible to prove.
That is kind of a block stone argument for scientists, creationist or anyone really. If universe is finite then what's after when it ends because it can't be nothing or absense of anything but if so, then the existance of the universe had a beginning? Then how come something can begin when there was nothing at all to begin with? If you desagree and accept that universe is infinite and always existed, and had no beginging to begin with then you would be inclined that some sort of creater is outthere too who had no begining but if he had then who created him? I will stop there...
The whole Big Bang concept implies a day with no yesterday, aka “Genesis 1:1” Not sure why so many Christians are against the concept either since it essentially proves “everythingness” came from nothingness.
we also live in a 3D+1D universe. 3 dimensions for space and one for time, time is linear for us but a higher being can possibly live beyond the bounds of time or experience it differently...doesn’t string theory have like 11 dimensions or something like that? Way beyond my (probably everyone’s) understanding but I think there’s more to just what we see and feel to the universe.
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
I don't know if aliens exist but universe is infinite for sure, so the chance for them to exist are infinite too?
Proof the universe is infinite?
Current theory expects it to be, but it’s not 100% certain and impossible to prove.
That is kind of a block stone argument for scientists, creationist or anyone really. If universe is finite then what's after when it ends because it can't be nothing or absense of anything but if so, then the existance of the universe had a beginning? Then how come something can begin when there was nothing at all to begin with? If you desagree and accept that universe is infinite and always existed, and had no beginging to begin with then you would be inclined that some sort of creater is outthere too who had no begining but if he had then who created him? I will stop there...
You're assuming things have to be one way or the other. A finite universe doesn't mean it has a defineable beginning or end. Hell, it doesn't even need a boundary to be finite. The universe could just be going though a phase transition into another state. Just like with an infinite universe - it doesn't have to have a defineable beginning or end.
But in the end, the size or shape of the universe doesn't really matter, since we can only realistically communicate in short distances.
Also, before the big bang, the universe wasn't empty. The universe has never been empty as far as we can tell, and there's no reason to suspect it will ever be or has been.
And unless there's proof some entity created the universe, I will never believe such a story.
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
We very definitely are NOT past the filter.
How do you know? How do we know even such a thing exists? The only thing we know is we have a limited time on the planet before the planet is no longer habitable (4.5 billion years or so?). Everything else is just speculation. Some sound like solid ideas, though I don't think the "Great Filter" is something that's real. And if you consider the death of a planet a "filter", then when everything is too far away due to expansion, nobody gets past that "filter".
Is it hard to believe that we're the first ones? In cosmic timescales, the universe is incredibly young. Earliest lifeform began between 3.75B years ago to 4.5B years ago, and had to endure quite a bit to evolve to the lifeforms we have now. It took several billion years to create the elements and environment necessary for life to even start.
Now, I do think intelligent life will eventually discovered in another solar system, and maybe some microbial life already exists somewhere, but I would wager we won't discover ET in our lifetime.
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
We very definitely are NOT past the filter.
How do you know? How do we know even such a thing exists? The only thing we know is we have a limited time on the planet before the planet is no longer habitable (4.5 billion years or so?). Everything else is just speculation. Some sound like solid ideas, though I don't think the "Great Filter" is something that's real. And if you consider the death of a planet a "filter", then when everything is too far away due to expansion, nobody gets past that "filter".
Is it hard to believe that we're the first ones? In cosmic timescales, the universe is incredibly young. Earliest lifeform began between 3.75B years ago to 4.5B years ago, and had to endure quite a bit to evolve to the lifeforms we have now. It took several billion years to create the elements and environment necessary for life to even start.
Now, I do think intelligent life will eventually discovered in another solar system, and maybe some microbial life already exists somewhere, but I would wager we won't discover ET in our lifetime.
We don't know that the filter exists.
But if it does, the fact that we are still living on our initial planet, with no genuinely viable means of migrating civiliation off of this planet and no viable means of defending this planet from cataclysmic events, pretty much by definition means we are not past the great fiilter, if it exists.
I also don't think it is hard to believe that we are first.
It can definitely be both -- i.e. "we're first" AND "we haven't passed the filter, nor has anyone else in the universe"
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
We very definitely are NOT past the filter.
How do you know? How do we know even such a thing exists? The only thing we know is we have a limited time on the planet before the planet is no longer habitable (4.5 billion years or so?). Everything else is just speculation. Some sound like solid ideas, though I don't think the "Great Filter" is something that's real. And if you consider the death of a planet a "filter", then when everything is too far away due to expansion, nobody gets past that "filter".
Is it hard to believe that we're the first ones? In cosmic timescales, the universe is incredibly young. Earliest lifeform began between 3.75B years ago to 4.5B years ago, and had to endure quite a bit to evolve to the lifeforms we have now. It took several billion years to create the elements and environment necessary for life to even start.
Now, I do think intelligent life will eventually discovered in another solar system, and maybe some microbial life already exists somewhere, but I would wager we won't discover ET in our lifetime.
We don't know that the filter exists.
But if it does, the fact that we are still living on our initial planet, with no genuinely viable means of migrating civiliation off of this planet and no viable means of defending this planet from cataclysmic events, pretty much by definition means we are not past the great fiilter, if it exists.
I also don't think it is hard to believe that we are first.
It can definitely be both -- i.e. "we're first" AND "we haven't passed the filter, nor has anyone else in the universe"
Like I said, getting off the planet shouldn't really be an indicator that there is a filter or that we're not past it. Suppose we lived in a 1 planet solar system I'm more inclined that humans are always thinking of the scariest scenarios possible, as well as finding an answer to some of the biggest unanswered questions about life/the universe we have, and the Great Filter explanation appeases both the scary scenario, and a "reason why we haven't seen other advanced life". I don't think there's going to be a catch-all filter that every future lifeform will experience. I.e., the single planet solar system above would take a civilization longer to figure out how to survive on another planet versus being able to send a lander and explore the environment. Same with a planet lacking resources - say uranium. They would have other difficulties than we do here for power generation.
It doesn't seem realistic for there to be a "filter" where life hasn't, or can't reach past, due to this.
Also, I'd say defending our planet from a doomsday scenario wouldn't define whether a species has made it past this hypothetical filter, but more on available knowledge and technology. If the civilization hasn't stopped evolving, a meteor crashing into Earth and creating another scenario like what happened with the dinos, I wouldn't say they were wiped out due to the filter - but wiped out due to shit luck.
We are alone here on Earth. The Marvel movies sparked my mind on this. We believe there could be life on Mars. Not far from here. I don't thinks it's stereotypical aliens like most picture in movies.. But I do believe there are other people out there.
Kind of fascinating. A little scary. Most likely none of us will be around to see it. Our planet and galaxy would take a long time to reach. Still. I think there are others out there. Not like crazy Thanos types out for danger but others like us.
Okay fellow NAers. Just watched this on Netflix. Found it very interesting as someone who has waded through alot of information and documentaries, books, etc. over the years. I am a 100% believer that we are not alone in this Universe. Pretty generalized belief but understanding how vast space is, the probability is hard to dismiss.
Any other believers out there?
The images from Hubble have been the most awe inspiring for me.
I interviewed the guy that put “the glasses” on the Hubble telescope in like 4th grade. Pretty fun also Ill have to watch this
I've been interested in Bob Lazar for years now. It's great to see him get some attention again with the documentary and the Joe Rogan podcast. There's almost no doubt in my mind that this guy believes what he is saying to be true. I've never seen anyone so convincing. That being said, this stuff interests me but I'm not sure if I believe or not.
"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space
"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space
That book is an awesome read and well worth anyone's time.
It doesn't seem realistic for there to be a "filter" where life hasn't, or can't reach past, due to this.
Also, I'd say defending our planet from a doomsday scenario wouldn't define whether a species has made it past this hypothetical filter, but more on available knowledge and technology. If the civilization hasn't stopped evolving, a meteor crashing into Earth and creating another scenario like what happened with the dinos, I wouldn't say they were wiped out due to the filter - but wiped out due to shit luck.
You have a different take on the concept of a "great filter" than i do, then.
"Shit luck" can absolutely be part of the equation.
As in, while it is statistically likely that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the galaxy and certainly the universe, it may be statistically more likely that "shit luck" wipes them out before they are able to become an interstellar species with any real reach.
That "shit luck" can take the form of extinction-level cosmic events, population-ending diseases, resource shortages, initial resource allocation on the homeworld, etc.
Couple that with "created" issues like cataclysmic war or extreme-high-technology leading to extremely powerful dissident/terrorist groups, and you have a whole slew of things that can put a possible cap on how far a civilization can get in the time they have allotted before facing the "shit luck" of cosmic events.
Add to that, genuinely surviving "past the filter" (at least as I've seen the "filter" defined) implies that the civilization is capable of fully harnessing the power of a star (i.e. you can build a Dyson Sphere) AND can travel to other stars to avoid cosmic-wipeout.
The universe could have genuine limitations that simply can't be violated that prevent either of those from being possible or practical.
(but the point is, WE definitely aren't anywhere close to clearing either of those hurdles, so if a filter exists, we're nowhere close to being past it)
It doesn't seem realistic for there to be a "filter" where life hasn't, or can't reach past, due to this.
Also, I'd say defending our planet from a doomsday scenario wouldn't define whether a species has made it past this hypothetical filter, but more on available knowledge and technology. If the civilization hasn't stopped evolving, a meteor crashing into Earth and creating another scenario like what happened with the dinos, I wouldn't say they were wiped out due to the filter - but wiped out due to shit luck.
You have a different take on the concept of a "great filter" than i do, then.
"Shit luck" can absolutely be part of the equation.
As in, while it is statistically likely that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the galaxy and certainly the universe, it may be statistically more likely that "shit luck" wipes them out before they are able to become an interstellar species with any real reach.
That "shit luck" can take the form of extinction-level cosmic events, population-ending diseases, resource shortages, initial resource allocation on the homeworld, etc.
Couple that with "created" issues like cataclysmic war or extreme-high-technology leading to extremely powerful dissident/terrorist groups, and you have a whole slew of things that can put a possible cap on how far a civilization can get in the time they have allotted before facing the "shit luck" of cosmic events.
Add to that, genuinely surviving "past the filter" (at least as I've seen the "filter" defined) implies that the civilization is capable of fully harnessing the power of a star (i.e. you can build a Dyson Sphere) AND can travel to other stars to avoid cosmic-wipeout.
The universe could have genuine limitations that simply can't be violated that prevent either of those from being possible or practical.
(but the point is, WE definitely aren't anywhere close to clearing either of those hurdles, so if a filter exists, we're nowhere close to being past it)
Yeah, we have a different definition of a filter. I would agree with one if the filter stopped all species from evolving beyond a certain point, but luck of the draw on environment and location doesn’t cut it for me, otherwise everything is a part of the filter, which means we’ll just keep passing through it until the universe becomes to specially distant for any interaction - which nobody will get past, so I guess that would be the filter? Nothing is eternal, so you can literally apply the filter to pretty much that or anything else a which to me makes it 100% meaningless.
I feel like the most obvious thing that kills the concept of a Dyson Sphere is the unimaginable amount of raw material you need to build one in the first place.
Couple that with the structural and other technical concerns of building it, in space, in the obscenely hostile environment of close proximity to a star (both heat and gravity), and I would rate it as pure science fiction with stuff like faster-than-light travel.
Comments
I don't know if aliens exist but universe is infinite for sure, so the chance for them to exist are infinite too?
Proof the universe is infinite?
Current theory expects it to be, but it’s not 100% certain and impossible to prove.
Life is almost certainly out there, probably even intelligent life, but being able to reach out is extremely difficult.
I don't know if aliens exist but universe is infinite for sure, so the chance for them to exist are infinite too?
Exactly.
To think that we are the only form of life in a universe that we haven't even understood the scope of yet is ingnorant at best.
I watched the Bob Lazar doc.... was cool. Slept through most of it, though. Will watch again.
Been a "believer" for a long time. Obviously? I find it wild when people think humans are so awesome and MUST be the only life in the universe, haha, so very narrow minded....
We're alone guys please drop it, just trust me, your friendly neighborhood human.
He's an alien!!! Get him!!!! Poke him....Prod him!!!! He walks among us!!! :-)
That would explain his prowess at shooters. Real world experience.
But hey I'm a 9/11 theorist as well so don't let my "crazy" mind get too deep on this.
I don't know if aliens exist but universe is infinite for sure, so the chance for them to exist are infinite too?
Proof the universe is infinite?
Current theory expects it to be, but it’s not 100% certain and impossible to prove.
That is kind of a block stone argument for scientists, creationist or anyone really. If universe is finite then what's after when it ends because it can't be nothing or absense of anything but if so, then the existance of the universe had a beginning? Then how come something can begin when there was nothing at all to begin with? If you desagree and accept that universe is infinite and always existed, and had no beginging to begin with then you would be inclined that some sort of creater is outthere too who had no begining but if he had then who created him? I will stop there...
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record
If we're talking carbon-based life forms, then bacterial or fungus is likely.
Sentient is much less likely, but we're here ourselves so the odds can be beaten.
We have to keep in mind that we are also a huge colonly of presumably non-sentient living cells that are completely unaware of what the whole system (our body) is up to, so there're chances that we are also an abysmally small, functionning organism that's part of something far bigger and complex than we can comprehend, which would mean there are other living parts to this system. It's neat to think about this stuff.
Guys seriously please drop it we're alone come on they're gonna come get me send help.
Got you fam.
Hint...Go to the "white" zone.
I don't know if aliens exist but universe is infinite for sure, so the chance for them to exist are infinite too?
Proof the universe is infinite?
Current theory expects it to be, but it’s not 100% certain and impossible to prove.
That is kind of a block stone argument for scientists, creationist or anyone really. If universe is finite then what's after when it ends because it can't be nothing or absense of anything but if so, then the existance of the universe had a beginning? Then how come something can begin when there was nothing at all to begin with? If you desagree and accept that universe is infinite and always existed, and had no beginging to begin with then you would be inclined that some sort of creater is outthere too who had no begining but if he had then who created him? I will stop there...
The whole Big Bang concept implies a day with no yesterday, aka “Genesis 1:1” Not sure why so many Christians are against the concept either since it essentially proves “everythingness” came from nothingness.
we also live in a 3D+1D universe. 3 dimensions for space and one for time, time is linear for us but a higher being can possibly live beyond the bounds of time or experience it differently...doesn’t string theory have like 11 dimensions or something like that? Way beyond my (probably everyone’s) understanding but I think there’s more to just what we see and feel to the universe.
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
We very definitely are NOT past the filter.
I don't know if aliens exist but universe is infinite for sure, so the chance for them to exist are infinite too?
Proof the universe is infinite?
Current theory expects it to be, but it’s not 100% certain and impossible to prove.
That is kind of a block stone argument for scientists, creationist or anyone really. If universe is finite then what's after when it ends because it can't be nothing or absense of anything but if so, then the existance of the universe had a beginning? Then how come something can begin when there was nothing at all to begin with? If you desagree and accept that universe is infinite and always existed, and had no beginging to begin with then you would be inclined that some sort of creater is outthere too who had no begining but if he had then who created him? I will stop there...
You're assuming things have to be one way or the other. A finite universe doesn't mean it has a defineable beginning or end. Hell, it doesn't even need a boundary to be finite. The universe could just be going though a phase transition into another state. Just like with an infinite universe - it doesn't have to have a defineable beginning or end.
https://www.space.com/17217-big-bang-phase-change-theory.html
But in the end, the size or shape of the universe doesn't really matter, since we can only realistically communicate in short distances.
Also, before the big bang, the universe wasn't empty. The universe has never been empty as far as we can tell, and there's no reason to suspect it will ever be or has been.
And unless there's proof some entity created the universe, I will never believe such a story.
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
We very definitely are NOT past the filter.
How do you know? How do we know even such a thing exists? The only thing we know is we have a limited time on the planet before the planet is no longer habitable (4.5 billion years or so?). Everything else is just speculation. Some sound like solid ideas, though I don't think the "Great Filter" is something that's real. And if you consider the death of a planet a "filter", then when everything is too far away due to expansion, nobody gets past that "filter".
Is it hard to believe that we're the first ones? In cosmic timescales, the universe is incredibly young. Earliest lifeform began between 3.75B years ago to 4.5B years ago, and had to endure quite a bit to evolve to the lifeforms we have now. It took several billion years to create the elements and environment necessary for life to even start.
Now, I do think intelligent life will eventually discovered in another solar system, and maybe some microbial life already exists somewhere, but I would wager we won't discover ET in our lifetime.
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
We very definitely are NOT past the filter.
How do you know? How do we know even such a thing exists? The only thing we know is we have a limited time on the planet before the planet is no longer habitable (4.5 billion years or so?). Everything else is just speculation. Some sound like solid ideas, though I don't think the "Great Filter" is something that's real. And if you consider the death of a planet a "filter", then when everything is too far away due to expansion, nobody gets past that "filter".
Is it hard to believe that we're the first ones? In cosmic timescales, the universe is incredibly young. Earliest lifeform began between 3.75B years ago to 4.5B years ago, and had to endure quite a bit to evolve to the lifeforms we have now. It took several billion years to create the elements and environment necessary for life to even start.
Now, I do think intelligent life will eventually discovered in another solar system, and maybe some microbial life already exists somewhere, but I would wager we won't discover ET in our lifetime.
We don't know that the filter exists.
But if it does, the fact that we are still living on our initial planet, with no genuinely viable means of migrating civiliation off of this planet and no viable means of defending this planet from cataclysmic events, pretty much by definition means we are not past the great fiilter, if it exists.
I also don't think it is hard to believe that we are first.
It can definitely be both -- i.e. "we're first" AND "we haven't passed the filter, nor has anyone else in the universe"
I like the idea that the solution to the Fermi paradox is that we are extremely early to the game. We're the popular sci-fi "Elder Race" of the universe...that or we're completely and forever alone but poetically we're also the manifestation of the universe observing itself.
I think the idea of "the great filter" is pretty compelling, in that it is easy to believe that there are technological milestones that species generally don't survive beyond due to obliterating themselves (or failing to reach said milestones before their planet becomes uninhabitable for them).
Also, there is the good chance that no matter how advanced your technology becomes, you are stuck relatively close to home due to practical speed limits in interstellar space.
Here’s hoping we’re past the filter and not before it!
We very definitely are NOT past the filter.
How do you know? How do we know even such a thing exists? The only thing we know is we have a limited time on the planet before the planet is no longer habitable (4.5 billion years or so?). Everything else is just speculation. Some sound like solid ideas, though I don't think the "Great Filter" is something that's real. And if you consider the death of a planet a "filter", then when everything is too far away due to expansion, nobody gets past that "filter".
Is it hard to believe that we're the first ones? In cosmic timescales, the universe is incredibly young. Earliest lifeform began between 3.75B years ago to 4.5B years ago, and had to endure quite a bit to evolve to the lifeforms we have now. It took several billion years to create the elements and environment necessary for life to even start.
Now, I do think intelligent life will eventually discovered in another solar system, and maybe some microbial life already exists somewhere, but I would wager we won't discover ET in our lifetime.
We don't know that the filter exists.
But if it does, the fact that we are still living on our initial planet, with no genuinely viable means of migrating civiliation off of this planet and no viable means of defending this planet from cataclysmic events, pretty much by definition means we are not past the great fiilter, if it exists.
I also don't think it is hard to believe that we are first.
It can definitely be both -- i.e. "we're first" AND "we haven't passed the filter, nor has anyone else in the universe"
Like I said, getting off the planet shouldn't really be an indicator that there is a filter or that we're not past it. Suppose we lived in a 1 planet solar system I'm more inclined that humans are always thinking of the scariest scenarios possible, as well as finding an answer to some of the biggest unanswered questions about life/the universe we have, and the Great Filter explanation appeases both the scary scenario, and a "reason why we haven't seen other advanced life". I don't think there's going to be a catch-all filter that every future lifeform will experience. I.e., the single planet solar system above would take a civilization longer to figure out how to survive on another planet versus being able to send a lander and explore the environment. Same with a planet lacking resources - say uranium. They would have other difficulties than we do here for power generation.
It doesn't seem realistic for there to be a "filter" where life hasn't, or can't reach past, due to this.
Also, I'd say defending our planet from a doomsday scenario wouldn't define whether a species has made it past this hypothetical filter, but more on available knowledge and technology. If the civilization hasn't stopped evolving, a meteor crashing into Earth and creating another scenario like what happened with the dinos, I wouldn't say they were wiped out due to the filter - but wiped out due to shit luck.
Kind of fascinating. A little scary. Most likely none of us will be around to see it. Our planet and galaxy would take a long time to reach. Still. I think there are others out there. Not like crazy Thanos types out for danger but others like us.
Okay fellow NAers. Just watched this on Netflix. Found it very interesting as someone who has waded through alot of information and documentaries, books, etc. over the years. I am a 100% believer that we are not alone in this Universe. Pretty generalized belief but understanding how vast space is, the probability is hard to dismiss.
Any other believers out there?
The images from Hubble have been the most awe inspiring for me.
I interviewed the guy that put “the glasses” on the Hubble telescope in like 4th grade. Pretty fun also Ill have to watch this
Sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out, but like the man from Taured, this just sounds like a good story.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space
"Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
-- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space
That book is an awesome read and well worth anyone's time.
It doesn't seem realistic for there to be a "filter" where life hasn't, or can't reach past, due to this.
Also, I'd say defending our planet from a doomsday scenario wouldn't define whether a species has made it past this hypothetical filter, but more on available knowledge and technology. If the civilization hasn't stopped evolving, a meteor crashing into Earth and creating another scenario like what happened with the dinos, I wouldn't say they were wiped out due to the filter - but wiped out due to shit luck.
You have a different take on the concept of a "great filter" than i do, then.
"Shit luck" can absolutely be part of the equation.
As in, while it is statistically likely that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the galaxy and certainly the universe, it may be statistically more likely that "shit luck" wipes them out before they are able to become an interstellar species with any real reach.
That "shit luck" can take the form of extinction-level cosmic events, population-ending diseases, resource shortages, initial resource allocation on the homeworld, etc.
Couple that with "created" issues like cataclysmic war or extreme-high-technology leading to extremely powerful dissident/terrorist groups, and you have a whole slew of things that can put a possible cap on how far a civilization can get in the time they have allotted before facing the "shit luck" of cosmic events.
Add to that, genuinely surviving "past the filter" (at least as I've seen the "filter" defined) implies that the civilization is capable of fully harnessing the power of a star (i.e. you can build a Dyson Sphere) AND can travel to other stars to avoid cosmic-wipeout.
The universe could have genuine limitations that simply can't be violated that prevent either of those from being possible or practical.
(but the point is, WE definitely aren't anywhere close to clearing either of those hurdles, so if a filter exists, we're nowhere close to being past it)
It doesn't seem realistic for there to be a "filter" where life hasn't, or can't reach past, due to this.
Also, I'd say defending our planet from a doomsday scenario wouldn't define whether a species has made it past this hypothetical filter, but more on available knowledge and technology. If the civilization hasn't stopped evolving, a meteor crashing into Earth and creating another scenario like what happened with the dinos, I wouldn't say they were wiped out due to the filter - but wiped out due to shit luck.
You have a different take on the concept of a "great filter" than i do, then.
"Shit luck" can absolutely be part of the equation.
As in, while it is statistically likely that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the galaxy and certainly the universe, it may be statistically more likely that "shit luck" wipes them out before they are able to become an interstellar species with any real reach.
That "shit luck" can take the form of extinction-level cosmic events, population-ending diseases, resource shortages, initial resource allocation on the homeworld, etc.
Couple that with "created" issues like cataclysmic war or extreme-high-technology leading to extremely powerful dissident/terrorist groups, and you have a whole slew of things that can put a possible cap on how far a civilization can get in the time they have allotted before facing the "shit luck" of cosmic events.
Add to that, genuinely surviving "past the filter" (at least as I've seen the "filter" defined) implies that the civilization is capable of fully harnessing the power of a star (i.e. you can build a Dyson Sphere) AND can travel to other stars to avoid cosmic-wipeout.
The universe could have genuine limitations that simply can't be violated that prevent either of those from being possible or practical.
(but the point is, WE definitely aren't anywhere close to clearing either of those hurdles, so if a filter exists, we're nowhere close to being past it)
Yeah, we have a different definition of a filter. I would agree with one if the filter stopped all species from evolving beyond a certain point, but luck of the draw on environment and location doesn’t cut it for me, otherwise everything is a part of the filter, which means we’ll just keep passing through it until the universe becomes to specially distant for any interaction - which nobody will get past, so I guess that would be the filter? Nothing is eternal, so you can literally apply the filter to pretty much that or anything else a which to me makes it 100% meaningless.
Dyson spheres are crazy to think about.
I feel like the most obvious thing that kills the concept of a Dyson Sphere is the unimaginable amount of raw material you need to build one in the first place.
Couple that with the structural and other technical concerns of building it, in space, in the obscenely hostile environment of close proximity to a star (both heat and gravity), and I would rate it as pure science fiction with stuff like faster-than-light travel.