I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
You're not the only one that feels that way I'm sure.
But you're also not the only one that feels the exact opposite. That specific game you mention (sealed KI) is an interesting mention, and I feel I have some insight. It was and still is a really doozy to find. I started collecting 20+ years ago, but didn't see any of them swap hands until roughly 10+ years ago. Even back then, they generally went for around ~5k mark, give or take a few k for condition/variant. And that was 10 years ago...... 10. years. ago. I can't say I'd pay 9k for the copy that sold HA (it wasn't even close to mint condition, despite what the news articles said). But given a slightly better price, coupled with it being in better condition, it would have been an absolute steal imo. *edit* - it was also not a 1st edition HT... Still it's a great title to pick up whomever did. *
Oh and lol @ people thinking comic collectors didnt grow up with video games... im willing to bet almost anyone born in 75 or later had interactions with a nintendo console during their childhood... so yeah even though they collect comics that doesnt mean they grew up ONLY reading comics.
Just for reference my comments apply to nes / snes and to a certain extent n64. I dont know much nor care about any other systems. And i certainly hope the new money coming in slows down because i have ways to go before getting everything i aspire since i started collecting sealed only this year (not coming from comics just loose collector moving on to sealed)
I never said they didn't grow up with video games. I'm sure most of them did. But I am not reading these new collectors talking about specifically collecting games that are their favorites, the ones they grew up with, hidden gems they have found, etc. It is all about "key title" print run and rarity and dollar value and potential dollar value. The thing about all this is thankfully is even though it is all anyone is talking about this is only like 1% of all collectors buying these sealed games. Just a shame the rest of us 99% will have to pay more money when things trickle down from sealed to cib and possibly loose.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I get the “new wave” collectors have more cash to splash, but general principles of collecting should remain, particularly if they have a background of collecting other collectibles. There should be elements of education, stealth, patience and caution.
The trouble between the new money using nes as an investment collectible and new blood with a little cash chasing childhood favorites - the titles are largely the same.
Also- the new guys have no feel for true supply so FOMO is massive. Which creates sales that look very rich.
Lastly this new wave will never impact loose carts - other than SE little Samson etc which already are expensive. CIBs May trickle up a little but it will only be for mint and highly sought after games
I find the article to have some level of irony with some biases:
- putting graded games on a pedestal, yet..
- elevating WATA as the be-all with the majority of it referencing (and picturing) only WATA games; VGA was mentioned briefly as if their service is not worth mentioning
- they seem to talk about rich bastards coming from comic collecting are only focusing on WATA, where this is simply not the case; VGA has been providing services to comic collectors for years (exhibit A - Bronty)!
A lot of people consider VGA to be a joke, especially those coming into video game collecting from elsewhere. The WATA ties to Heritage and CGC are a huge deal as it adds a layer of legitimacy to the product. And as much as competition is a good thing when it comes to goods/services, collectors would prefer a single entity that is responsible for grading for quite a few reasons.
Oh and lol @ people thinking comic collectors didnt grow up with video games... im willing to bet almost anyone born in 75 or later had interactions with a nintendo console during their childhood... so yeah even though they collect comics that doesnt mean they grew up ONLY reading comics.
The distinction is made because it identifies people who are not into video game collecting for nostalgia or enjoyment but because of financial opportunities.
A signficant amount of card collector money was transferred into comic books when people with money outside the medium noticed the gains that were being realized as the characters became ingrained in pop culture over the past 10 years. These people may be familiar with comics or video games from their youth but they don't actually care about them now outside of them being unregulated assets where they can park cash or something to flip in the short term. NES, SNES, Genesis is akin to gold and silver age comics, except people with money still see an opening to get in on the ground floor with video gaming in regards to sealed and mint complete copies. Even the most sought after stuff is relatively cheap compared to other collectibles. And despite the high production numbers, sealed copies of games are not nearly as publicly available as most people think, even in regards to newer console generations. There are PS1 and PS2 games that don't see any sealed copies listed in a calendar year for example.
I find the article to have some level of irony with some biases:
- putting graded games on a pedestal, yet..
- elevating WATA as the be-all with the majority of it referencing (and picturing) only WATA games; VGA was mentioned briefly as if their service is not worth mentioning
- they seem to talk about rich bastards coming from comic collecting are only focusing on WATA, where this is simply not the case; VGA has been providing services to comic collectors for years (exhibit A - Bronty)!
A lot of people consider VGA to be a joke, especially those coming into video game collecting from elsewhere. The WATA ties to Heritage and CGC are a huge deal as it adds a layer of legitimacy to the product. And as much as competition is a good thing when it comes to goods/services, collectors would prefer a single entity that is responsible for grading for quite a few reasons.
I think there are 2 groups of collectors we’re talking about here:
- Graded games collectors - they have been doing so for years since VGA came on, some will jump over to WATA or some will collect for both
- CIB collectors and rich investors jumping on board; WATA have promoted themselves well.
My original point is that the game and the condition dictates the buyer, not necessarily the company that is grading the item. If say you want the mintiest/rarest game of certain titles, and it exists as a one of a kind VGA or WATA grade, would you ignore it if you think it belongs to a service you “think it’s a joke”?
I find the article to have some level of irony with some biases:
- putting graded games on a pedestal, yet..
- elevating WATA as the be-all with the majority of it referencing (and picturing) only WATA games; VGA was mentioned briefly as if their service is not worth mentioning
- they seem to talk about rich bastards coming from comic collecting are only focusing on WATA, where this is simply not the case; VGA has been providing services to comic collectors for years (exhibit A - Bronty)!
A lot of people consider VGA to be a joke, especially those coming into video game collecting from elsewhere. The WATA ties to Heritage and CGC are a huge deal as it adds a layer of legitimacy to the product. And as much as competition is a good thing when it comes to goods/services, collectors would prefer a single entity that is responsible for grading for quite a few reasons.
I think there are 2 groups of collectors we’re talking about here:
- Graded games collectors - they have been doing so for years since VGA came on, some will jump over to WATA or some will collect for both
- CIB collectors and rich investors jumping on board; WATA have promoted themselves well.
My original point is that the game and the condition dictates the buyer, not necessarily the company that is grading the item. If say you want the mintiest/rarest game of certain titles, and it exists as a one of a kind VGA or WATA grade, would you ignore it if you think it belongs to a service you “think it’s a joke”?
The grading company absolutely can affect the perceived condition of the game for the buyer. Hell for all the respect that the comics community has for CGC, their grading is called into question on a daily basis, by people that spend anywhere from hundreds of dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars on their graded books. A grading company's reputation is everything, a potential buyer will absolutely ignore a VGA graded game if they don't care for VGA. They might be interested in the game if it was available at a discount, otherwise no. And in your example a unicorn isn't something that is going to be discounted. You aren't paying market price for a graded copy of a game if you believe the company that graded it overgrades or is inconsistent with their grading.
There is a not-insignificant group of people that had no interest in buying sealed and graded video games until WATA became a thing. That is an absolute reality. You see it in the auction results, you see it in the prices for raw sealed copies of games on eBay.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I get the “new wave” collectors have more cash to splash, but general principles of collecting should remain, particularly if they have a background of collecting other collectibles. There should be elements of education, stealth, patience and caution.
Ohh but they do! You just don’t see it because it is a different set of rules from yours. These guys aren’t dumb. They have already made their money in other hobbies and now they are applying those same rules that made them millionaires to videogames. Scary as some of these prices seem now to these new guys these same prices are the ground floor.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I get the “new wave” collectors have more cash to splash, but general principles of collecting should remain, particularly if they have a background of collecting other collectibles. There should be elements of education, stealth, patience and caution.
Ohh but they do! You just don’t see it because it is a different set of rules from yours. These guys aren’t dumb. They have already made their money in other hobbies and now they are applying those same rules that made them millionaires to videogames. Scary as some of these prices seem now to these new guys these same prices are the ground floor.
There are plenty of people bringing significant new money into video game collecting who are doing dumb things that will lead to a loss for them.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I get the “new wave” collectors have more cash to splash, but general principles of collecting should remain, particularly if they have a background of collecting other collectibles. There should be elements of education, stealth, patience and caution.
Ohh but they do! You just don’t see it because it is a different set of rules from yours. These guys aren’t dumb. They have already made their money in other hobbies and now they are applying those same rules that made them millionaires to videogames. Scary as some of these prices seem now to these new guys these same prices are the ground floor.
There are plenty of people bringing significant new money into video game collecting who are doing dumb things that will lead to a loss for them.
Ok then don’t worry about it. Everything will go back to the way it was in a couple years.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
You're not the only one that feels that way I'm sure.
But you're also not the only one that feels the exact opposite. That specific game you mention (sealed KI) is an interesting mention, and I feel I have some insight. It was and still is a really doozy to find. I started collecting 20+ years ago, but didn't see any of them swap hands until roughly 10+ years ago. Even back then, they generally went for around ~5k mark, give or take a few k for condition/variant. And that was 10 years ago...... 10. years. ago. I can't say I'd pay 9k for the copy that sold HA (it wasn't even close to mint condition, despite what the news articles said). But given a slightly better price, coupled with it being in better condition, it would have been an absolute steal imo. *edit* - it was also not a 1st edition HT... Still it's a great title to pick up whomever did. *
And that's the thing. I've been collecting high-end for about 5 years now and these prices "make sense" to me. Once that HT Mario Bros. Sold for 30k, it solidified everything that I was assuming regarding the hobbies true grails. It's about damn time these true collector items saw some "real" collectible prices. That's more how I see it, anyway. I don't see this new era of pricing going anywhere.
The rise in game prices, particularly sealed, is mirroring almost exactly what happened with MtG in the last 5 years. People are looking for the next big goldrush, and that search is fueled largely by gen x with disposable income, with certain catalysts triggering it all (Bitcoin profits were funneled into legit asset classes, like MtG, Wata linking the bridge between Comic Collectors (saturated market) and VideoGames (largely untapped).
The end results of all this and everyone spending money on everything trying to predict what will be invest-able and profitable. What will ultimately happen is, certain key items will retain and even increase with value in time, with the last majority of everything else fading in value and relevancy. The vast majority of NES games will fade in time as generations move to a digital only world. Noone will care about borderline unplayable primitive games. What they will care about is Mario and Zelda first prints as they were the beginning of a legacy, provided that legacy continue.
If Nintendo went out of business today, how much would Pokemon cards be worth 20 years later with absolutely nothing new contributed to a dead game? In the late 90's / early 2000's, Decipher made a Star Wars CCG whose sales and popularity rivaled MtG in some years. Nearly all of those cards are now worthless 19 years later, and SW is one of the biggest IP's on earth.
Everything comes in waves, and only the true top tier items (specific comic issues, power 9 in MtG, original BB NES of key titles) are set to endure with time.
If the goal is to make money, then collecting is an extremely risky investment option. It's almost as bad as gambling; e.g., buying up lotto tickets is not a rational form of investing either. Historically, if you put the same money into stock market index funds and wait the same time, your return will be significantly larger. Not to mention that you can sell a fund instantly at the market rate. You might be waiting a long time to find a buyer for your collectables at any point in time. Also, like any physical commodity, your collection could get damaged, stolen or destroyed while you have it. Depending on the size of your collection, you might have storage fees or insurance fees. Your collection might include some worthless counterfeits unknowingly. I should also point that technically, you are supposed to pay a tax of nearly 30% on any profits you made while selling your collectables.
If you enjoy the process of collecting and you have the means, do it. But it's really difficult to justify doing it to gain money when compared against other more conservative and traditional investment options out there.
If the goal is to make money, then collecting is an extremely risky investment option. It's almost as bad as gambling; e.g., buying up lotto tickets is not a rational form of investing either. Historically, if you put the same money into stock market index funds and wait the same time, your return will be significantly larger. Not to mention that you can sell a fund instantly at the market rate. You might be waiting a long time to find a buyer for your collectables at any point in time. Also, like any physical commodity, your collection could get damaged, stolen or destroyed while you have it. Depending on the size of your collection, you might have storage fees or insurance fees. Your collection might include some worthless counterfeits unknowingly. I should also point that technically, you are supposed to pay a tax of nearly 30% on any profits you made while selling your collectables.
If you enjoy the process of collecting and you have the means, do it. But it's really difficult to justify doing it to gain money when compared against other more conservative and traditional investment options out there.
That's the standard and correct advice for most people but if you know what you're doing in collectibles and have no idea what you're doing in the stock market, its a load of horsecrepe.... lots of people have made money in collectibles that wouldn't or couldn't in the stock market. Now, millions if not hundreds of millions of people have made money in the stock market that couldn't or wouldn't have with collectibles, so let's not kid around.. the money in collectibles is but a drop in the ocean that is the stock market... but its not one size fits all. I took way more risk than I had any business doing as a young kid with collectibles but it was the right choice for me. If I had stuffed that in a IRA equivalent I would have done much worse. And besides, I was living and breathing the stuff anyways. It wasn't really an 'investment', but it did work out well.
I.e. 99 times out of 100 I agree with you, but its not an absolute.
That's the standard and correct advice for most people but if you know what you're doing in collectibles and have no idea what you're doing in the stock market, its a load of horsecrepe.... lots of people have made money in collectibles that wouldn't or couldn't in the stock market. Now, millions if not hundreds of millions of people have made money in the stock market that couldn't or wouldn't have with collectibles, so let's not kid around.. the money in collectibles is but a drop in the ocean that is the stock market... but its not one size fits all. I took way more risk than I had any business doing as a young kid with collectibles but it was the right choice for me. If I had stuffed that in a IRA equivalent I would have done much worse. And besides, I was living and breathing the stuff anyways. It wasn't really an 'investment', but it did work out well.
I.e. 99 times out of 100 I agree with you, but its not an absolute.
In truth, there have been many times in the past where I nearly bought some insanely expensive rare item. But in all those cases, I crunched the numbers and I couldn't convince myself that it made any rational sense. The calculations revealed it didn't even make sense as "an alternative investiment option". You could be right about that 99-out-of-100 thing... but that sounds like gambling!
That's the standard and correct advice for most people but if you know what you're doing in collectibles and have no idea what you're doing in the stock market, its a load of horsecrepe.... lots of people have made money in collectibles that wouldn't or couldn't in the stock market. Now, millions if not hundreds of millions of people have made money in the stock market that couldn't or wouldn't have with collectibles, so let's not kid around.. the money in collectibles is but a drop in the ocean that is the stock market... but its not one size fits all. I took way more risk than I had any business doing as a young kid with collectibles but it was the right choice for me. If I had stuffed that in a IRA equivalent I would have done much worse. And besides, I was living and breathing the stuff anyways. It wasn't really an 'investment', but it did work out well.
I.e. 99 times out of 100 I agree with you, but its not an absolute.
In truth, there have been many times in the past where I nearly bought some insanely expensive rare item. But in all those cases, I crunched the numbers and I couldn't convince myself that it made any rational sense. The calculations revealed it didn't even make sense as "an alternative investiment option". You could be right about that 99-out-of-100 thing... but that sounds like gambling!
There's nothing wrong with passing on something because the outlay seems too rich. Perfectly sensible. But, there are no "numbers to crunch." Games do not pay dividends, they do not pay interest, there is no way to ever profit from owning one besides eventually selling it to someone else. As such, what's more relevant to whether you're going to make any money from selling is your buyer's budget, not yours. Not gambling! Risky, but that's not the same thing.
People blowing $100k on a single game probably don't care about making money on it. People snapping up the sub $3k or so games probably do but know it's not gonna be a short term play. People invest in speculative stuff all the time either on or off the stock ticker, someone in this topic hit the nail on the head with suggesting people are looking for the next get rich quick item.
edit: eh maybe like sub $10k as risky investments. Shit if I had to sell my Samson now I’d plobably take a loss, who knows what it’ll look like 1-2 years from now.
The change on this board from 'sealed collecting is the scourge of the hobby' to 'get everything graded' has been a pleasant change Gone are the twice-weekly 'grading is killing the hobby' and 'prices are insane' and chatter about VGA. The non-sealed collectors are now in full swing, grading their CIBs and selling them for big bucks. Good for everyone. The vitriol toward sealed collecting on this board has, over the years, made it at times unpleasant for a sealed aficionado. Nice to see we're moving away from that now.
The change on this board from 'sealed collecting is the scourge of the hobby' to 'get everything graded' has been a pleasant change Gone are the twice-weekly 'grading is killing the hobby' and 'prices are insane' and chatter about VGA. The non-sealed collectors are now in full swing, grading their CIBs and selling them for big bucks. Good for everyone. The vitriol toward sealed collecting on this board has, over the years, made it at times unpleasant for a sealed aficionado. Nice to see we're moving away from that now.
Yes, 1upped, how the times change
While the "gold rush" is crazy, it is nice to see a lot more discussion of things like variants lately instead of just price charts and "the bubble", even if the only reason people are interested in variants is to see which games will make them rich.
VGA doesn't grade used games. WATA now does, and that has opened the door to those that did not collect sealed/new to grade their games as used/open and bring to the market. That's been an interesting change, and I'm happy for everyone involved! The attitude has definitely changed now that more people are able to grade their collections.
VGA doesn't grade used games. WATA now does, and that has opened the door to those that did not collect sealed/new to grade their games as used/open and bring to the market. That's been an interesting change, and I'm happy for everyone involved! The attitude has definitely changed now that more people are able to grade their collections.
I think it's just the fire on NA has subsided. Going into social media you still don't see much support for grading and a whole lot of hating against it.
VGA doesn't grade used games. WATA now does, and that has opened the door to those that did not collect sealed/new to grade their games as used/open and bring to the market. That's been an interesting change, and I'm happy for everyone involved! The attitude has definitely changed now that more people are able to grade their collections.
I think it's just the fire on NA has subsided. Going into social media you still don't see much support for grading and a whole lot of hating against it.
I’m not surprised we see so much hate against sealed collecting. The hobby of retro game collecting is relatively young and the vast majority of people still see games only for their intended utility value as games and not as legitimate collectibles. That will fade in time I think.
VGA doesn't grade used games. WATA now does, and that has opened the door to those that did not collect sealed/new to grade their games as used/open and bring to the market. That's been an interesting change, and I'm happy for everyone involved! The attitude has definitely changed now that more people are able to grade their collections.
I think it's just the fire on NA has subsided. Going into social media you still don't see much support for grading and a whole lot of hating against it.
I'm not surprised we see so much hate against sealed collecting. The hobby of retro game collecting is relatively young and the vast majority of people still see games only for their intended utility value as games and not as legitimate collectibles. That will fade in time I think.
People have been saying this since the inception of grading games. I haven't seen it get any more accepted in the last 7 years.
Comments
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
You're not the only one that feels that way I'm sure.
But you're also not the only one that feels the exact opposite. That specific game you mention (sealed KI) is an interesting mention, and I feel I have some insight. It was and still is a really doozy to find. I started collecting 20+ years ago, but didn't see any of them swap hands until roughly 10+ years ago. Even back then, they generally went for around ~5k mark, give or take a few k for condition/variant. And that was 10 years ago...... 10. years. ago. I can't say I'd pay 9k for the copy that sold HA (it wasn't even close to mint condition, despite what the news articles said). But given a slightly better price, coupled with it being in better condition, it would have been an absolute steal imo. *edit* - it was also not a 1st edition HT... Still it's a great title to pick up whomever did. *
Oh and lol @ people thinking comic collectors didnt grow up with video games... im willing to bet almost anyone born in 75 or later had interactions with a nintendo console during their childhood... so yeah even though they collect comics that doesnt mean they grew up ONLY reading comics.
Just for reference my comments apply to nes / snes and to a certain extent n64. I dont know much nor care about any other systems. And i certainly hope the new money coming in slows down because i have ways to go before getting everything i aspire since i started collecting sealed only this year (not coming from comics just loose collector moving on to sealed)
I never said they didn't grow up with video games. I'm sure most of them did. But I am not reading these new collectors talking about specifically collecting games that are their favorites, the ones they grew up with, hidden gems they have found, etc. It is all about "key title" print run and rarity and dollar value and potential dollar value. The thing about all this is thankfully is even though it is all anyone is talking about this is only like 1% of all collectors buying these sealed games. Just a shame the rest of us 99% will have to pay more money when things trickle down from sealed to cib and possibly loose.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I get the “new wave” collectors have more cash to splash, but general principles of collecting should remain, particularly if they have a background of collecting other collectibles. There should be elements of education, stealth, patience and caution.
Also- the new guys have no feel for true supply so FOMO is massive. Which creates sales that look very rich.
Lastly this new wave will never impact loose carts - other than SE little Samson etc which already are expensive. CIBs May trickle up a little but it will only be for mint and highly sought after games
I find the article to have some level of irony with some biases:
- putting graded games on a pedestal, yet..
- elevating WATA as the be-all with the majority of it referencing (and picturing) only WATA games; VGA was mentioned briefly as if their service is not worth mentioning
- they seem to talk about rich bastards coming from comic collecting are only focusing on WATA, where this is simply not the case; VGA has been providing services to comic collectors for years (exhibit A - Bronty)!
A lot of people consider VGA to be a joke, especially those coming into video game collecting from elsewhere. The WATA ties to Heritage and CGC are a huge deal as it adds a layer of legitimacy to the product. And as much as competition is a good thing when it comes to goods/services, collectors would prefer a single entity that is responsible for grading for quite a few reasons.
Oh and lol @ people thinking comic collectors didnt grow up with video games... im willing to bet almost anyone born in 75 or later had interactions with a nintendo console during their childhood... so yeah even though they collect comics that doesnt mean they grew up ONLY reading comics.
The distinction is made because it identifies people who are not into video game collecting for nostalgia or enjoyment but because of financial opportunities.
A signficant amount of card collector money was transferred into comic books when people with money outside the medium noticed the gains that were being realized as the characters became ingrained in pop culture over the past 10 years. These people may be familiar with comics or video games from their youth but they don't actually care about them now outside of them being unregulated assets where they can park cash or something to flip in the short term. NES, SNES, Genesis is akin to gold and silver age comics, except people with money still see an opening to get in on the ground floor with video gaming in regards to sealed and mint complete copies. Even the most sought after stuff is relatively cheap compared to other collectibles. And despite the high production numbers, sealed copies of games are not nearly as publicly available as most people think, even in regards to newer console generations. There are PS1 and PS2 games that don't see any sealed copies listed in a calendar year for example.
I find the article to have some level of irony with some biases:
- putting graded games on a pedestal, yet..
- elevating WATA as the be-all with the majority of it referencing (and picturing) only WATA games; VGA was mentioned briefly as if their service is not worth mentioning
- they seem to talk about rich bastards coming from comic collecting are only focusing on WATA, where this is simply not the case; VGA has been providing services to comic collectors for years (exhibit A - Bronty)!
A lot of people consider VGA to be a joke, especially those coming into video game collecting from elsewhere. The WATA ties to Heritage and CGC are a huge deal as it adds a layer of legitimacy to the product. And as much as competition is a good thing when it comes to goods/services, collectors would prefer a single entity that is responsible for grading for quite a few reasons.
I think there are 2 groups of collectors we’re talking about here:
- Graded games collectors - they have been doing so for years since VGA came on, some will jump over to WATA or some will collect for both
- CIB collectors and rich investors jumping on board; WATA have promoted themselves well.
My original point is that the game and the condition dictates the buyer, not necessarily the company that is grading the item. If say you want the mintiest/rarest game of certain titles, and it exists as a one of a kind VGA or WATA grade, would you ignore it if you think it belongs to a service you “think it’s a joke”?
I find the article to have some level of irony with some biases:
- putting graded games on a pedestal, yet..
- elevating WATA as the be-all with the majority of it referencing (and picturing) only WATA games; VGA was mentioned briefly as if their service is not worth mentioning
- they seem to talk about rich bastards coming from comic collecting are only focusing on WATA, where this is simply not the case; VGA has been providing services to comic collectors for years (exhibit A - Bronty)!
A lot of people consider VGA to be a joke, especially those coming into video game collecting from elsewhere. The WATA ties to Heritage and CGC are a huge deal as it adds a layer of legitimacy to the product. And as much as competition is a good thing when it comes to goods/services, collectors would prefer a single entity that is responsible for grading for quite a few reasons.
I think there are 2 groups of collectors we’re talking about here:
- Graded games collectors - they have been doing so for years since VGA came on, some will jump over to WATA or some will collect for both
- CIB collectors and rich investors jumping on board; WATA have promoted themselves well.
My original point is that the game and the condition dictates the buyer, not necessarily the company that is grading the item. If say you want the mintiest/rarest game of certain titles, and it exists as a one of a kind VGA or WATA grade, would you ignore it if you think it belongs to a service you “think it’s a joke”?
The grading company absolutely can affect the perceived condition of the game for the buyer. Hell for all the respect that the comics community has for CGC, their grading is called into question on a daily basis, by people that spend anywhere from hundreds of dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars on their graded books. A grading company's reputation is everything, a potential buyer will absolutely ignore a VGA graded game if they don't care for VGA. They might be interested in the game if it was available at a discount, otherwise no. And in your example a unicorn isn't something that is going to be discounted. You aren't paying market price for a graded copy of a game if you believe the company that graded it overgrades or is inconsistent with their grading.
There is a not-insignificant group of people that had no interest in buying sealed and graded video games until WATA became a thing. That is an absolute reality. You see it in the auction results, you see it in the prices for raw sealed copies of games on eBay.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I get the “new wave” collectors have more cash to splash, but general principles of collecting should remain, particularly if they have a background of collecting other collectibles. There should be elements of education, stealth, patience and caution.
Ohh but they do! You just don’t see it because it is a different set of rules from yours. These guys aren’t dumb. They have already made their money in other hobbies and now they are applying those same rules that made them millionaires to videogames. Scary as some of these prices seem now to these new guys these same prices are the ground floor.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I get the “new wave” collectors have more cash to splash, but general principles of collecting should remain, particularly if they have a background of collecting other collectibles. There should be elements of education, stealth, patience and caution.
Ohh but they do! You just don’t see it because it is a different set of rules from yours. These guys aren’t dumb. They have already made their money in other hobbies and now they are applying those same rules that made them millionaires to videogames. Scary as some of these prices seem now to these new guys these same prices are the ground floor.
There are plenty of people bringing significant new money into video game collecting who are doing dumb things that will lead to a loss for them.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
New money looks like they are here to stay and if so they make the new rules.
When I started in the mid 90s Atari collectors held the cards. When NIntendo centric collectors started to arrive they didn’t care about the old rules.
This new wave doesn’t care about your old rules. There will be some price corrections and somethings bought today will clearly be overpaid for. Others will look like bargains.
I get the “new wave” collectors have more cash to splash, but general principles of collecting should remain, particularly if they have a background of collecting other collectibles. There should be elements of education, stealth, patience and caution.
Ohh but they do! You just don’t see it because it is a different set of rules from yours. These guys aren’t dumb. They have already made their money in other hobbies and now they are applying those same rules that made them millionaires to videogames. Scary as some of these prices seem now to these new guys these same prices are the ground floor.
There are plenty of people bringing significant new money into video game collecting who are doing dumb things that will lead to a loss for them.
Ok then don’t worry about it. Everything will go back to the way it was in a couple years.
I have been collecting for about 17-18 years and In my opinion the values that some people think these sealed games are worth and are actually paying is beyond insane to me. The only people that would be willing to pay this much have to be looking for a return on their investment some years down the road and NO WAY these game will be worth what people are spending today. How many people out there really would spend 9k for a sealed Kid Icarus? I cant be the only one that feels this way. I know the talk is "Well that is what they are worth because that is what people are willing to pay", but I think a vast majority of the Nintendo collecting community agrees with me and thinks these prices are going to crash big time. I do think that some games like NWC carts will always hold the extreme high prices but not much else will.
You're not the only one that feels that way I'm sure.
But you're also not the only one that feels the exact opposite. That specific game you mention (sealed KI) is an interesting mention, and I feel I have some insight. It was and still is a really doozy to find. I started collecting 20+ years ago, but didn't see any of them swap hands until roughly 10+ years ago. Even back then, they generally went for around ~5k mark, give or take a few k for condition/variant. And that was 10 years ago...... 10. years. ago. I can't say I'd pay 9k for the copy that sold HA (it wasn't even close to mint condition, despite what the news articles said). But given a slightly better price, coupled with it being in better condition, it would have been an absolute steal imo. *edit* - it was also not a 1st edition HT... Still it's a great title to pick up whomever did. *
And that's the thing. I've been collecting high-end for about 5 years now and these prices "make sense" to me. Once that HT Mario Bros. Sold for 30k, it solidified everything that I was assuming regarding the hobbies true grails. It's about damn time these true collector items saw some "real" collectible prices. That's more how I see it, anyway. I don't see this new era of pricing going anywhere.
The end results of all this and everyone spending money on everything trying to predict what will be invest-able and profitable. What will ultimately happen is, certain key items will retain and even increase with value in time, with the last majority of everything else fading in value and relevancy. The vast majority of NES games will fade in time as generations move to a digital only world. Noone will care about borderline unplayable primitive games. What they will care about is Mario and Zelda first prints as they were the beginning of a legacy, provided that legacy continue.
If Nintendo went out of business today, how much would Pokemon cards be worth 20 years later with absolutely nothing new contributed to a dead game? In the late 90's / early 2000's, Decipher made a Star Wars CCG whose sales and popularity rivaled MtG in some years. Nearly all of those cards are now worthless 19 years later, and SW is one of the biggest IP's on earth.
Everything comes in waves, and only the true top tier items (specific comic issues, power 9 in MtG, original BB NES of key titles) are set to endure with time.
If you enjoy the process of collecting and you have the means, do it. But it's really difficult to justify doing it to gain money when compared against other more conservative and traditional investment options out there.
If the goal is to make money, then collecting is an extremely risky investment option. It's almost as bad as gambling; e.g., buying up lotto tickets is not a rational form of investing either. Historically, if you put the same money into stock market index funds and wait the same time, your return will be significantly larger. Not to mention that you can sell a fund instantly at the market rate. You might be waiting a long time to find a buyer for your collectables at any point in time. Also, like any physical commodity, your collection could get damaged, stolen or destroyed while you have it. Depending on the size of your collection, you might have storage fees or insurance fees. Your collection might include some worthless counterfeits unknowingly. I should also point that technically, you are supposed to pay a tax of nearly 30% on any profits you made while selling your collectables.
If you enjoy the process of collecting and you have the means, do it. But it's really difficult to justify doing it to gain money when compared against other more conservative and traditional investment options out there.
That's the standard and correct advice for most people but if you know what you're doing in collectibles and have no idea what you're doing in the stock market, its a load of horsecrepe.... lots of people have made money in collectibles that wouldn't or couldn't in the stock market. Now, millions if not hundreds of millions of people have made money in the stock market that couldn't or wouldn't have with collectibles, so let's not kid around.. the money in collectibles is but a drop in the ocean that is the stock market... but its not one size fits all. I took way more risk than I had any business doing as a young kid with collectibles but it was the right choice for me. If I had stuffed that in a IRA equivalent I would have done much worse. And besides, I was living and breathing the stuff anyways. It wasn't really an 'investment', but it did work out well.
I.e. 99 times out of 100 I agree with you, but its not an absolute.
That's the standard and correct advice for most people but if you know what you're doing in collectibles and have no idea what you're doing in the stock market, its a load of horsecrepe.... lots of people have made money in collectibles that wouldn't or couldn't in the stock market. Now, millions if not hundreds of millions of people have made money in the stock market that couldn't or wouldn't have with collectibles, so let's not kid around.. the money in collectibles is but a drop in the ocean that is the stock market... but its not one size fits all. I took way more risk than I had any business doing as a young kid with collectibles but it was the right choice for me. If I had stuffed that in a IRA equivalent I would have done much worse. And besides, I was living and breathing the stuff anyways. It wasn't really an 'investment', but it did work out well.
I.e. 99 times out of 100 I agree with you, but its not an absolute.
In truth, there have been many times in the past where I nearly bought some insanely expensive rare item. But in all those cases, I crunched the numbers and I couldn't convince myself that it made any rational sense. The calculations revealed it didn't even make sense as "an alternative investiment option". You could be right about that 99-out-of-100 thing... but that sounds like gambling!
That's the standard and correct advice for most people but if you know what you're doing in collectibles and have no idea what you're doing in the stock market, its a load of horsecrepe.... lots of people have made money in collectibles that wouldn't or couldn't in the stock market. Now, millions if not hundreds of millions of people have made money in the stock market that couldn't or wouldn't have with collectibles, so let's not kid around.. the money in collectibles is but a drop in the ocean that is the stock market... but its not one size fits all. I took way more risk than I had any business doing as a young kid with collectibles but it was the right choice for me. If I had stuffed that in a IRA equivalent I would have done much worse. And besides, I was living and breathing the stuff anyways. It wasn't really an 'investment', but it did work out well.
I.e. 99 times out of 100 I agree with you, but its not an absolute.
In truth, there have been many times in the past where I nearly bought some insanely expensive rare item. But in all those cases, I crunched the numbers and I couldn't convince myself that it made any rational sense. The calculations revealed it didn't even make sense as "an alternative investiment option". You could be right about that 99-out-of-100 thing... but that sounds like gambling!
There's nothing wrong with passing on something because the outlay seems too rich. Perfectly sensible. But, there are no "numbers to crunch." Games do not pay dividends, they do not pay interest, there is no way to ever profit from owning one besides eventually selling it to someone else. As such, what's more relevant to whether you're going to make any money from selling is your buyer's budget, not yours. Not gambling! Risky, but that's not the same thing.
edit: eh maybe like sub $10k as risky investments. Shit if I had to sell my Samson now I’d plobably take a loss, who knows what it’ll look like 1-2 years from now.
Yes, 1upped, how the times change
The change on this board from 'sealed collecting is the scourge of the hobby' to 'get everything graded' has been a pleasant change Gone are the twice-weekly 'grading is killing the hobby' and 'prices are insane' and chatter about VGA. The non-sealed collectors are now in full swing, grading their CIBs and selling them for big bucks. Good for everyone. The vitriol toward sealed collecting on this board has, over the years, made it at times unpleasant for a sealed aficionado. Nice to see we're moving away from that now.
Yes, 1upped, how the times change
While the "gold rush" is crazy, it is nice to see a lot more discussion of things like variants lately instead of just price charts and "the bubble", even if the only reason people are interested in variants is to see which games will make them rich.
VGA doesn't grade used games. WATA now does, and that has opened the door to those that did not collect sealed/new to grade their games as used/open and bring to the market. That's been an interesting change, and I'm happy for everyone involved! The attitude has definitely changed now that more people are able to grade their collections.
I think it's just the fire on NA has subsided. Going into social media you still don't see much support for grading and a whole lot of hating against it.
VGA doesn't grade used games. WATA now does, and that has opened the door to those that did not collect sealed/new to grade their games as used/open and bring to the market. That's been an interesting change, and I'm happy for everyone involved! The attitude has definitely changed now that more people are able to grade their collections.
I think it's just the fire on NA has subsided. Going into social media you still don't see much support for grading and a whole lot of hating against it.
I’m not surprised we see so much hate against sealed collecting. The hobby of retro game collecting is relatively young and the vast majority of people still see games only for their intended utility value as games and not as legitimate collectibles. That will fade in time I think.
VGA doesn't grade used games. WATA now does, and that has opened the door to those that did not collect sealed/new to grade their games as used/open and bring to the market. That's been an interesting change, and I'm happy for everyone involved! The attitude has definitely changed now that more people are able to grade their collections.
I think it's just the fire on NA has subsided. Going into social media you still don't see much support for grading and a whole lot of hating against it.
I'm not surprised we see so much hate against sealed collecting. The hobby of retro game collecting is relatively young and the vast majority of people still see games only for their intended utility value as games and not as legitimate collectibles. That will fade in time I think.
People have been saying this since the inception of grading games. I haven't seen it get any more accepted in the last 7 years.