Stadium Events rarity question

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Comments

  • Awesome news. My curiosity has peaked.
  • This is awesome news. Time for some real answers.



    Thanks for all the work you're putting into this, Nick.
  • Slash Man: Woolworth's could have been a testing location for it or the main buyer, but Miami had Woolworth's. I lived in Miami. People are mentioning places where they were mostly found and New York and Miami had a few...
  • bump for thenickross leaving us hanging.
  • My Father asked me if i had that stupid game all because its worth a shit load..... I said no and i was thinking i have no "Nice" cloths why would i have that. And if i had it i would sell it to buy nice cloths and some Newer video games. I'm not hatin on any of the older games but i'm not into them anymore.
  • Yeah, what the dealio yo?
  • so im guessing nick never got a reply?? talk about cliffhangers...
  • Originally posted by: NESMASTER14

    I wonder if Bandai would share any info on the production info, etc...? Probably not, but it could be worth a try.



    I called their customer service while writing the Wiki page, they gave me an email address, but I never heard back.  I doubt they have records they'd give out, but you KNOW they have them somewhere.  Companies don't just manufacture goods and then not record how many were sold or recalled..
  • I have been reading over this with interest.. Though I have no answers. It is possible that 20 years later BanDai has lost the information about production numbers.. heck you only need to keep Tax documents 7 years..  Anyway I have a FFF Athletic World and Pad that was purchased in CA. I am very sure that it did not come from a Woolworths as I don't even remember the stores name around here (granted I was like 10 years old or so). I am betting I got it from TRU. which means that they could have had stadium events.. I do remember that I wanted that game but I never saw it come to market.
  • 2000 is a miniscule production run for a video game cart. I doubt Bandai would have even bothered with a run so small. I recently was in a bid for a huuuuge butt-load of Atari 2600/7800 games - all factory sealed. Long story short - we lost the bid. But there were about 1M games, all factory sealed and boxed up in master boxes. If I learned anything from that experience it was about the video game manufacturing process back in the days of carts. As far as Atari carts went - 1 master box held 6 smaller boxes containing 12 games each. So 1 master held 72 games. In Atari terms, that's less than 28 cases. For an original run. I don't know what NES master boxes held, but since they are roughly the same size as Atari boxes they're probably in the same ballpark at 72. The cost of manufacturing would be ridiculous and unprofitable to only run 28 cases.



    That 1M Atari lot we were looking at had about 30k each of various titles. And that was the tail end of what was left when Atari closed the warehouse doors, if that puts it in perspective.



    So I think it's safe to say the 2000 number is inaccurate. But the recall is where the real scarcity comes in. How many escaped the store before the recall? Were the recalled products recycled, or just stored somewhere? How many cases weren't turned in from the recall? That's where it gets interesting.
  • For whoever said Canada didn't have Woolworths, you're wrong. I remember both Woolworths and their subsidiary "Woolco" very vividly from my childhood. I believe when Woolworths shut down, the Woolco brand was sold to The Hudson Bay Company and was absorbed into their Zellers brand. Also, when I was in England in '06, I remember seeing a Woolworths outlet still thriving, so it was only their North American branches that completely disappeared. And just because they were the main distributer doesn't mean they were the ONLY distributor. Hell, the sealed one that just sold was not purchased at Woolworths, but at another store entirely.
  • ^ That's what I read on wikipedia when I initially looked it up, FWIW. In fact, Woolworths did survive internationally after it axed its USA stores, in Canada and abroad.
  • It got axed here too, but it lasted a bit longer than the US. I never read the Wiki on it though, just relaying personal knowledge. Nice to know I'm not pulling shit out of my ass though image
  • JFC can we let the Woolworths thing go? Every single shred of evidence is pointing against a "Woolworths only" theory, why won't it just die? Second, this is pure theory, has anyone looked into the posilbitiy that Nintendo simply purchased all of the SE events carts off of Bandai after the first shipment and then "reflashed" them and/or put in new chips, and stuck a different/new sticker on them? doesn't make much sense to me for the carts to have been completely destroyed or for such a small number of the carts to exist today unless this is what happened.
  • And another thing, a reason why this cart would show up at places like NY or Miami or CA is because those are the population centers of the US. Especially in the 80's, games didn't roll out in all locations, they would be released first in the big markets then trickle into the small cities.
  • Nintendo recycling the carts makes the most sense. Certainly way more likely than all the carts being trashed ET-style. AS DreamTR mentioned, Nintendo had the rights to repackage the whole FFF product, so why wouldn't that include literally repackaging the game cartridge? After all, Nintendo had already suffered through a chip shortage by that time so they wouldn't be so wasteful as to trash all those perfectly good carts. And if indeed they were all recycled after recall, then like BraveHeart said it wouldn't matter how many were produced. Because they are all out there ciurculating as we speak... with a big fat WCTM label on them! Also, I do beleive Kraid Killer is correct, I remember reading somewhere ("Game Over" prolly) that Nintendo's minimum production order was 10,000. So the 2000 thing smells like BS or urban myth. Anyway, the only thing that matters as far as SE's rarity goes is the amount sold retail prior to recall. Maybe if nick's guy at Bandai ever resurfaces he can provide this crucial fact...

  • Then how, pre tell, did my friend play it when he was growing up IN MEDICINE HAT ALBERTA? It's hardly a major population center of anything. He was quite pissed his mom threw all his gaming shit out when he met me and found out what it was worth.
  • Originally posted by: AceEbb

    Nintendo recycling the carts makes the most sense. Certainly way more likely than all the carts being trashed ET-style. AS DreamTR mentioned, Nintendo had the rights to repackage the whole FFF product, so why wouldn't that include literally repackaging the game cartridge? After all, Nintendo had already suffered through a chip shortage by that time so they wouldn't be so wasteful as to trash all those perfectly good carts. And if indeed they were all recycled after recall, then like BraveHeart said it wouldn't matter how many were produced. Because they are all out there ciurculating as we speak... with a big fat WCTM label on them! Also, I do beleive Kraid Killer is correct, I remember reading somewhere ("Game Over" prolly) that Nintendo's minimum production order was 10,000. So the 2000 thing smells like BS or urban myth. Anyway, the only thing that matters as far as SE's rarity goes is the amount sold retail prior to recall. Maybe if nick's guy at Bandai ever resurfaces he can provide this crucial fact...



    This also assumes retailers would take the time and energy to ship them back.  More likely anything in retailers' hands got put in the bargain bin rather than shipped back.  Any copies recycled by Nintendo likely came directly from Bandai, not from every retail outlet in North America.
  • Originally posted by: the_wizard_666

    Originally posted by: AceEbb

    Nintendo recycling the carts makes the most sense. Certainly way more likely than all the carts being trashed ET-style. AS DreamTR mentioned, Nintendo had the rights to repackage the whole FFF product, so why wouldn't that include literally repackaging the game cartridge? After all, Nintendo had already suffered through a chip shortage by that time so they wouldn't be so wasteful as to trash all those perfectly good carts. And if indeed they were all recycled after recall, then like BraveHeart said it wouldn't matter how many were produced. Because they are all out there ciurculating as we speak... with a big fat WCTM label on them! Also, I do beleive Kraid Killer is correct, I remember reading somewhere ("Game Over" prolly) that Nintendo's minimum production order was 10,000. So the 2000 thing smells like BS or urban myth. Anyway, the only thing that matters as far as SE's rarity goes is the amount sold retail prior to recall. Maybe if nick's guy at Bandai ever resurfaces he can provide this crucial fact...



    This also assumes retailers would take the time and energy to ship them back.  More likely anything in retailers' hands got put in the bargain bin rather than shipped back.  Any copies recycled by Nintendo likely came directly from Bandai, not from every retail outlet in North America.

    2 points I'd like to bring up:

    1) Individual stores have to purchase their inventory.  So every Woolworths (or whatever store) needed to order whatever amount of SE (or whatever game/product) and PAY for them.  When a product is recalled, they would get reimbursed for the ones they send back.  So they would ABSOLUTELY send them back in instead of taking a hit by placing them in a bargain bin.

    2) If they were in fact recycled (highly likely), they most likely would have been sold to a scrap recycling plant in some centralized location.  That's how I got wrapped up in that 1,000,000 NIP Atari cart hijinks a few months back (what a mess!  be careful what you wish for).  It would have been beyond Nintendo's capabilities to recycle them internally at their manufacturing plant, so they would have been scraped out for gold content, etc.

    So the likely theory is this: store buys X number of SE from Nintendo -> Nintendo recalls product, issues memo to stores -> Nintendo reimburses stores for returned products -> Nintendo gathers returned product at centralized location -> Nintendo sells entire lot to recycling plant X -> recycling plant X shreds product, separates valuable contents (gold, plastic, cardboard, etc.), then sells the content on the open market to be used in other products.

    If you can track down recyclers that worked with NOA during that time period, maybe they can shed a little light on it.


  • NB: Sometimes recycled video game stuff ends up in really weird places. Take the Atari Jaguar for example:



    http://www.imaginsystems.com/hr_newlook_2020.html



    The Jag casing is now used to house dentist equipment. Or at least the injection molding dies were recycled for that.
  • Originally posted by: Dommie

    Originally posted by: the_wizard_666

    Originally posted by: AceEbb

    Nintendo recycling the carts makes the most sense. Certainly way more likely than all the carts being trashed ET-style. AS DreamTR mentioned, Nintendo had the rights to repackage the whole FFF product, so why wouldn't that include literally repackaging the game cartridge? After all, Nintendo had already suffered through a chip shortage by that time so they wouldn't be so wasteful as to trash all those perfectly good carts. And if indeed they were all recycled after recall, then like BraveHeart said it wouldn't matter how many were produced. Because they are all out there ciurculating as we speak... with a big fat WCTM label on them! Also, I do beleive Kraid Killer is correct, I remember reading somewhere ("Game Over" prolly) that Nintendo's minimum production order was 10,000. So the 2000 thing smells like BS or urban myth. Anyway, the only thing that matters as far as SE's rarity goes is the amount sold retail prior to recall. Maybe if nick's guy at Bandai ever resurfaces he can provide this crucial fact...



    This also assumes retailers would take the time and energy to ship them back.  More likely anything in retailers' hands got put in the bargain bin rather than shipped back.  Any copies recycled by Nintendo likely came directly from Bandai, not from every retail outlet in North America.

    2 points I'd like to bring up:

    1) Individual stores have to purchase their inventory.  So every Woolworths (or whatever store) needed to order whatever amount of SE (or whatever game/product) and PAY for them.  When a product is recalled, they would get reimbursed for the ones they send back.  So they would ABSOLUTELY send them back in instead of taking a hit by placing them in a bargain bin.

    2) If they were in fact recycled (highly likely), they most likely would have been sold to a scrap recycling plant in some centralized location.  That's how I got wrapped up in that 1,000,000 NIP Atari cart hijinks a few months back (what a mess!  be careful what you wish for).  It would have been beyond Nintendo's capabilities to recycle them internally at their manufacturing plant, so they would have been scraped out for gold content, etc.

    So the likely theory is this: store buys X number of SE from Nintendo -> Nintendo recalls product, issues memo to stores -> Nintendo reimburses stores for returned products -> Nintendo gathers returned product at centralized location -> Nintendo sells entire lot to recycling plant X -> recycling plant X shreds product, separates valuable contents (gold, plastic, cardboard, etc.), then sells the content on the open market to be used in other products.

    If you can track down recyclers that worked with NOA during that time period, maybe they can shed a little light on it.


    I'm aware the store would be reimbursed on their investment AT COST.  I'm sure there were more than a handful of retailers who chose to keep their inventory in order to possibly make a profit on it rather than send it back and have a vacant slot on the shelf.  It would only be when the title failed to sell off that the game would hit bargain bins, and if each store had only a small number from the first (and likely only) print run, I don't think they'd have many problems clearing the inventory out before the bargain bin.  I'm thinking this one would've at best been a voluntary recall, where they could keep them if they chose or send it back in exchange for credit from Nintendo/Bandai toward future purchases.  I highly doubt they would've been as draconian with retailers about a product with their official license than they were about unlicensed titles.

  • Originally posted by: the_wizard_666

    Originally posted by: Dommie

    Originally posted by: the_wizard_666

    Originally posted by: AceEbb

    Nintendo recycling the carts makes the most sense. Certainly way more likely than all the carts being trashed ET-style. AS DreamTR mentioned, Nintendo had the rights to repackage the whole FFF product, so why wouldn't that include literally repackaging the game cartridge? After all, Nintendo had already suffered through a chip shortage by that time so they wouldn't be so wasteful as to trash all those perfectly good carts. And if indeed they were all recycled after recall, then like BraveHeart said it wouldn't matter how many were produced. Because they are all out there ciurculating as we speak... with a big fat WCTM label on them! Also, I do beleive Kraid Killer is correct, I remember reading somewhere ("Game Over" prolly) that Nintendo's minimum production order was 10,000. So the 2000 thing smells like BS or urban myth. Anyway, the only thing that matters as far as SE's rarity goes is the amount sold retail prior to recall. Maybe if nick's guy at Bandai ever resurfaces he can provide this crucial fact...



    This also assumes retailers would take the time and energy to ship them back.  More likely anything in retailers' hands got put in the bargain bin rather than shipped back.  Any copies recycled by Nintendo likely came directly from Bandai, not from every retail outlet in North America.

    2 points I'd like to bring up:

    1) Individual stores have to purchase their inventory.  So every Woolworths (or whatever store) needed to order whatever amount of SE (or whatever game/product) and PAY for them.  When a product is recalled, they would get reimbursed for the ones they send back.  So they would ABSOLUTELY send them back in instead of taking a hit by placing them in a bargain bin.

    2) If they were in fact recycled (highly likely), they most likely would have been sold to a scrap recycling plant in some centralized location.  That's how I got wrapped up in that 1,000,000 NIP Atari cart hijinks a few months back (what a mess!  be careful what you wish for).  It would have been beyond Nintendo's capabilities to recycle them internally at their manufacturing plant, so they would have been scraped out for gold content, etc.

    So the likely theory is this: store buys X number of SE from Nintendo -> Nintendo recalls product, issues memo to stores -> Nintendo reimburses stores for returned products -> Nintendo gathers returned product at centralized location -> Nintendo sells entire lot to recycling plant X -> recycling plant X shreds product, separates valuable contents (gold, plastic, cardboard, etc.), then sells the content on the open market to be used in other products.

    If you can track down recyclers that worked with NOA during that time period, maybe they can shed a little light on it.


    I'm aware the store would be reimbursed on their investment AT COST.  I'm sure there were more than a handful of retailers who chose to keep their inventory in order to possibly make a profit on it rather than send it back and have a vacant slot on the shelf.  It would only be when the title failed to sell off that the game would hit bargain bins, and if each store had only a small number from the first (and likely only) print run, I don't think they'd have many problems clearing the inventory out before the bargain bin.  I'm thinking this one would've at best been a voluntary recall, where they could keep them if they chose or send it back in exchange for credit from Nintendo/Bandai toward future purchases.  I highly doubt they would've been as draconian with retailers about a product with their official license than they were about unlicensed titles.


    Meh, I dunno.  I remember that those track n field type games were never really big sellers.  Especially one branded as a "fitness" product.  I would have taken the credit if I was the purchasing manager.  Was Nintendo still buying back unsold product from retailers in 1987?  They were in 1985, but I'm not sure if they were still doing that by then.  That may have made the recall moot.  They may have just said "send them back" instead of asking them to send them back.

    Somebody needs to dig up an old Woolworth's manager and ask them.  LOL.


  • Yeah, cuz he'd remember an event that happened 23 years ago image



    Is there really any hard evidence that the game was ever actually recalled in the first place though, or is this just an urban legend based purely by speculation and taken as fact?
  • Originally posted by: the_wizard_666

    Yeah, cuz he'd remember an event that happened 23 years ago image



    Is there really any hard evidence that the game was ever actually recalled in the first place though, or is this just an urban legend based purely by speculation and taken as fact?


    Hang on a sec while I blow your mind:

    ...does the game even actually exist?

    image
  • Originally posted by: Dommie

    Originally posted by: the_wizard_666

    Yeah, cuz he'd remember an event that happened 23 years ago image

    Is there really any hard evidence that the game was ever actually recalled in the first place though, or is this just an urban legend based purely by speculation and taken as fact?


    Hang on a sec while I blow your mind:

    ...does the game even actually exist?

    image


    Do YOU even exist?  All we have is our own perceptions of reality.  I have a nice little blurb I posted on Facebook that I could repost on this very subject, but I'm pretty sure that would be EXTREMELY off topic image
  • Originally posted by: Dommie

    2 points I'd like to bring up:

    1) Individual stores have to purchase their inventory.  So every Woolworths (or whatever store) needed to order whatever amount of SE (or whatever game/product) and PAY for them.  When a product is recalled, they would get reimbursed for the ones they send back.  So they would ABSOLUTELY send them back in instead of taking a hit by placing them in a bargain bin.



    I work in a store and less than 1% of all recalled products are actually returned. We just have to confirm that we destroyed the product. The confirmation is tossing it in a freaking dumpster. Not saying that is the case, but another possibility

    Originally posted by: the_wizard_666





    I'm aware
    the store would be reimbursed on their investment AT COST.  I'm sure
    there were more than a handful of retailers who chose to keep their
    inventory in order to possibly make a profit on it rather than send it
    back and have a vacant slot on the shelf.  It would only be when the
    title failed to sell off that the game would hit bargain bins, and if
    each store had only a small number from the first (and likely only)
    print run, I don't think they'd have many problems clearing the
    inventory out before the bargain bin.  I'm thinking this one would've
    at best been a voluntary recall, where they could keep them if they
    chose or send it back in exchange for credit from Nintendo/Bandai
    toward future purchases.  I highly doubt they would've been as
    draconian with retailers about a product with their official license
    than they were about unlicensed titles.


    But what if Nintendo threatened your license to sell Nintendo Products if you did not follow through. One company we deal with gives us 100% credit on damaged goods, but if we get caught selling them after getting credit the shit storm erupts.

    I think Nintendo wanted there name on this product so that would make it a MANDATORY recall


  • Originally posted by: pats1717


    Originally posted by: the_wizard_666


    I'm aware the store would be reimbursed on their investment AT COST.  I'm sure there were more than a handful of retailers who chose to keep their inventory in order to possibly make a profit on it rather than send it back and have a vacant slot on the shelf.  It would only be when the title failed to sell off that the game would hit bargain bins, and if each store had only a small number from the first (and likely only) print run, I don't think they'd have many problems clearing the inventory out before the bargain bin.  I'm thinking this one would've at best been a voluntary recall, where they could keep them if they chose or send it back in exchange for credit from Nintendo/Bandai toward future purchases.  I highly doubt they would've been as draconian with retailers about a product with their official license than they were about unlicensed titles.

    But what if Nintendo threatened your license to sell Nintendo Products if you did not follow through. One company we deal with gives us 100% credit on damaged goods, but if we get caught selling them after getting credit the shit storm erupts.

    I think Nintendo wanted there name on this product so that would make it a MANDATORY recall





    Do you have any proof that they recalled it though, or is this complete speculation anyway?
  • Originally posted by: the_wizard_666

    Do you have any proof that they recalled it though, or is this complete speculation anyway?


    Does anyone? It is pure speculation on the hoopla about this SE game. Going on what has been passed down from previous generations image
  • That's exactly why I don't buy the hype. Let's put it this way: Shadowhacker was listed on Wikipedia for 2 years as a co-inventor of the barcode (under his real name, Jordin Johanssen (sp)), until they finally debunked it. He had artificially created sources that it was legit, and it took ages for them to sort through the junk to get to the truth of the matter and edited it. By then, the damage had been done. The same is true here - the accepted "truth" could be so far from it that even if the truth is learned, it would take years to replace the falsehoods that are out there now.
  • Originally posted by: the_wizard_666

    Originally posted by: pats1717


    Originally posted by: the_wizard_666


    I'm aware the store would be reimbursed on their investment AT COST.  I'm sure there were more than a handful of retailers who chose to keep their inventory in order to possibly make a profit on it rather than send it back and have a vacant slot on the shelf.  It would only be when the title failed to sell off that the game would hit bargain bins, and if each store had only a small number from the first (and likely only) print run, I don't think they'd have many problems clearing the inventory out before the bargain bin.  I'm thinking this one would've at best been a voluntary recall, where they could keep them if they chose or send it back in exchange for credit from Nintendo/Bandai toward future purchases.  I highly doubt they would've been as draconian with retailers about a product with their official license than they were about unlicensed titles.

    But what if Nintendo threatened your license to sell Nintendo Products if you did not follow through. One company we deal with gives us 100% credit on damaged goods, but if we get caught selling them after getting credit the shit storm erupts.

    I think Nintendo wanted there name on this product so that would make it a MANDATORY recall





    Do you have any proof that they recalled it though, or is this complete speculation anyway?


    It could be just that it was a shitty game that didn't sell well at all.  image

    Nah, but seriously, didn't somebody here talk with a fellow from Bandai?  Not that Bandai wouldn't necessarily not want the Urban Legend to live on anyway if it was - it's a ton of free press.  Oh god, more conspiracy theories!  I should quit while I'm ahead.

    I dunno - the simplest explanation is usually accurate.  Nintendo bought the rights from Bandai after it already went to market, and thought they'd sell more Power Pads if the called it "The Power Pad" (awesome) instead of the "Family Trainer" (lame).  And if Magnavox taught us anything, it's that consumers are retarded when it comes to crap like that and might not think the game works with "The Power Pad."  (for the Magnavox reference, read up about the commercial failure of the Odyssey I).
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