Since I'm the one that brought FF1's "story" into question, I think I know what I'm talking about. I said there was no story, and I meant that.. "story", not story line.
Originally posted by: dra600n
The story of 8 wasn't good, the gameplay was horrible, the junction system was horrible, building your weapons was horrible ,the characters were horrible, and so on. The only thing it had was greatly crafted cut scenes.
Doesn't sound like he is talking about a plot here either.
Like most people that hate 8 I would assume he meant the character interactions and romance that goes on. Though I'll leave that for him to say, either way the way he worded it was story, not story line, which I based my arguments on.
Also a setting = a place to put something. So I was saying a plot is a place to put a story. I wasn't referring to an actual setting as in the geographical location of the story, but I'm sure you knew that.
Might be opinions, but the majority agrees. FF8 was a huge failure. So you listed off that FF1 has shitty graphics compared to FF7. Point?
No I said FF1 didn't have great graphics for the time. Anyway though, you were saying which was the best FF game, not which game was the best for its time period. Like I said myself, FF1 is one of my favorites, but that is nostalgia speaking, it is not a better game then most of the others. It doesn't have any extreme qualities that will let it punch through the progress time brought. Newer games just beat it straight up in almost every department.
Originally posted by: dra600n
Without a story, there is no plot. Without a plot, there is no story.
And this is why FF1 failed in that area, especially it being an RPG. It is incomplete. They gave you the out line for the story, and never put the story in there.
Since I'm the one that brought FF1's "story" into question, I think I know what I'm talking about. I said there was no story, and I meant that.. "story", not story line.
Also a setting = a place to put something. So I was saying a plot is a place to put a story. I wasn't referring to an actual setting as in the geographical location of the story, but I'm sure you knew that.
Unfortunately, you do not.
A plot is not "a place to put a story", or a setting for the story. And a setting is not "a place to put something". A plot is a story line, or structure of the story. If there is a plot in place that you can move through, by definition there is a story. It's not necessarily going to be an elaborate story, or a well-told story, but it will exist.
You should probably retake literature if you believe that what you're saying is true.
Without a story, there is no plot. Without a plot, there is no story.
And this is why FF1 failed in that area, especially it being an RPG. It is incomplete. They gave you the out line for the story, and never put the story in there.
The story may not be fleshed out to the fullest. But it still exists.
I just got done reading some of the post and it seems I started a little flame war. I didn't think I was asking a question that was similar to asking "Whats better 360 or PS3?".
Just to let you guys know, I recently picked up:
Kingdom Hearts
Kingdom Hearts 2
.Hack/Mutation
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy 3 CIB
I'm really enjoying Kingdom Hearts right now then I'm going to move on to Kingdom Hearts II. The watched the anime movie that came with .Hack and it was really great so that might be next. I'm going to post pwn (I kid) Final Fantasy for now but when I get on it, I will start with Final Fantasy X. The opening scene hit me like a knife in the chest.
You didn't start a flame war. It's just me and Nathan, get used to it, lol. Flaming is people insulting each other.
No flaming, just debate.
Originally posted by: Tanooki
JBO FF8 has 3x less reviews too, wouldn't be too hard to skew that lower with a few hundred more results over time.
It's a sizable enough pool on both sides to work out a healthy average. If one was like 13 votes, and the other was 100, I could see your point, but they are both over a hundred. Anything over 50 should rule out any weird anomalies that could throw the average too far off. If it's skewed I doubt it is hardly skewed enough to make a difference.
I just got done reading some of the post and it seems I started a little flame war. I didn't think I was asking a question that was similar to asking "Whats better 360 or PS3?".
Bringing up Final Fantasy is like turning off the Rush at a D&D session. The nerds slowly get ornery and someone will eventually get hurt.
Your question (Do I need to start with #1 or can I jump in at #10) is simple enough. Yes, you can jump in at #10! Each game is self contained. In theory that should be the end of the thread. Of course, someone has to interject that the best one is such-and-such and someone says that a certain specific one is objectively bad and it all goes in the shitter.
Though I must say, the debate is more delightful than usual since it literally has nothing to do with anything. That's a fuckin pun right there bitches.
Plot is often designed with a narrative structure, storyline or story arc, that includes exposition, conflict, rising action and climax, followed by a falling action and resolution.
Yup that is where you put the story.
I don't mind debating opinion with you...but right now we're talking about facts, and you're wrong.
You're misusing all kinds of literary terms to hobble together a poorly constructed definition that suits your argument. If you used the terms correctly, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
That chart is correct, and that's what I said in previous posts.
But your insistence that it is "where you put the story" is incorrect. They are the building blocks of the story.
That's like saying that bricks, mortar, and lumber are "where you put your house". No...those are the components of your house.
Sorry to start such a massive argument I was only stating my opinions lol.
Anyways, Manifesto, if you're not into MMORPG's, you won't like FFXI (plus you have to pay to play it), and if you got it for the PS2, I'm not sure if it's still playable (though I'm sure someone will be able to confirm that for you).
And Kingdom Hearts is a badass game, haven't played the 2nd one yet though.
Sorry to start such a massive argument I was only stating my opinions lol. Anyways, Manifesto, if you're not into MMORPG's, you won't like FFXI (plus you have to pay to play it), and if you got it for the PS2, I'm not sure if it's still playable (though I'm sure someone will be able to confirm that for you).
And Kingdom Hearts is a badass game, haven't played the 2nd one yet though.
I was really surprised by how good Kingdom Hearts was. Kingdom Hearts 2 was still good, but unfortunately I don't think it lived up to the first one.
Sorry to start such a massive argument I was only stating my opinions lol. Anyways, Manifesto, if you're not into MMORPG's, you won't like FFXI (plus you have to pay to play it), and if you got it for the PS2, I'm not sure if it's still playable (though I'm sure someone will be able to confirm that for you).
And Kingdom Hearts is a badass game, haven't played the 2nd one yet though.
I was really surprised by how good Kingdom Hearts was. Kingdom Hearts 2 was still good, but unfortunately I don't think it lived up to the first one.
That's what I heard from a few people who've played it , but they're also the kind of people who have to use strategy guides for games to beat them, so I try to not take what they say too literally. I really enjoyed the first KH, so I'd still like to give the 2nd one a chance.
But your insistence that it is "where you put the story" is incorrect. They are the building blocks of the story.
Originally posted by: JBOGames
An outline inside of which story telling takes place.
/reopen discussion
Theses are almost the same things. I'm saying it's the foundation, you're saying it's the supplies. It could really be viewed either way. To me FF1 has the key points which make up a plot, everything flows in order, so to me that is not just a stack of supplies laying in a pile, it is a base or outline for you to fill those supplies in. To me the story is the supplies. Or the supplies could be views as the ideas and points of the plot, and the finished house a complete story.
Either way I don't think FF1 was a finished house. The contract wasn't payed, and the workers left the site.
For picking a game I would base it off of what interests you now. As others have said they are all different games, you could change the titles and it wouldn't even matter. The only thing that really ties them together is chocobos. If you like current gen RPGs I would go with the grand daddy that really kicked them off. FF7. If you are looking for just a solid game, I would go with FF6. If you are like me and like old school grinding and a basic party and battle system, go with FF1, 2, and 3.
Sorry to start such a massive argument I was only stating my opinions lol. Anyways, Manifesto, if you're not into MMORPG's, you won't like FFXI (plus you have to pay to play it), and if you got it for the PS2, I'm not sure if it's still playable (though I'm sure someone will be able to confirm that for you).
And Kingdom Hearts is a badass game, haven't played the 2nd one yet though.
I was really surprised by how good Kingdom Hearts was. Kingdom Hearts 2 was still good, but unfortunately I don't think it lived up to the first one.
That's what I heard from a few people who've played it , but they're also the kind of people who have to use strategy guides for games to beat them, so I try to not take what they say too literally. I really enjoyed the first KH, so I'd still like to give the 2nd one a chance.
It's definitely worth the play through. It's just not as amazing as the first so it looks a little worse that it would by itself.
I finally fired up that cheap copy of FF3 SNES I got a week ago now. Put an hour on it and I had a little fun until I forgot how to kill Vargas and it went bad, but I was goofing off as I didn't bother to level up and it was a bit heavy through there unprepared. I've always loved the game untl the world is blown up, then it just gets all disjointed, plot goes wonky, and everyone can use ultima/big weapons and it gets generic.
It's a sizable enough pool on both sides to work out a healthy average. If one was like 13 votes, and the other was 100, I could see your point, but they are both over a hundred. Anything over 50 should rule out any weird anomalies that could throw the average too far off. If it's skewed I doubt it is hardly skewed enough to make a difference.
Actually 30 is the magic sample number that you can expect normative data to be retrieved from. So both of those should be fine.
It's a sizable enough pool on both sides to work out a healthy average. If one was like 13 votes, and the other was 100, I could see your point, but they are both over a hundred. Anything over 50 should rule out any weird anomalies that could throw the average too far off. If it's skewed I doubt it is hardly skewed enough to make a difference.
Actually 30 is the magic sample number that you can expect normative data to be retrieved from. So both of those should be fine.
Comments
The story of 8 wasn't good, the gameplay was horrible, the junction system was horrible, building your weapons was horrible ,the characters were horrible, and so on. The only thing it had was greatly crafted cut scenes.
Doesn't sound like he is talking about a plot here either.
Might be opinions, but the majority agrees. FF8 was a huge failure. So you listed off that FF1 has shitty graphics compared to FF7. Point?
No I said FF1 didn't have great graphics for the time. Anyway though, you were saying which was the best FF game, not which game was the best for its time period. Like I said myself, FF1 is one of my favorites, but that is nostalgia speaking, it is not a better game then most of the others. It doesn't have any extreme qualities that will let it punch through the progress time brought. Newer games just beat it straight up in almost every department.
Without a story, there is no plot. Without a plot, there is no story.
And this is why FF1 failed in that area, especially it being an RPG. It is incomplete. They gave you the out line for the story, and never put the story in there.
Since I'm the one that brought FF1's "story" into question, I think I know what I'm talking about. I said there was no story, and I meant that.. "story", not story line.
Unfortunately, you do not.
A plot is not "a place to put a story", or a setting for the story. And a setting is not "a place to put something". A plot is a story line, or structure of the story.
If there is a plot in place that you can move through, by definition there is a story.
It's not necessarily going to be an elaborate story, or a well-told story, but it will exist.
You should probably retake literature if you believe that what you're saying is true.
Without a story, there is no plot. Without a plot, there is no story.
And this is why FF1 failed in that area, especially it being an RPG. It is incomplete. They gave you the out line for the story, and never put the story in there.
The story may not be fleshed out to the fullest. But it still exists.
And a setting is not "a place to put something".
From a dictionary:
Oh, btw, FFVI is the best.
Just to let you guys know, I recently picked up:
Kingdom Hearts
Kingdom Hearts 2
.Hack/Mutation
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy XI
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy 3 CIB
I'm really enjoying Kingdom Hearts right now then I'm going to move on to Kingdom Hearts II. The watched the anime movie that came with .Hack and it was really great so that might be next. I'm going to post pwn (I kid) Final Fantasy for now but when I get on it, I will start with Final Fantasy X. The opening scene hit me like a knife in the chest.
No flaming, just debate.
JBO FF8 has 3x less reviews too, wouldn't be too hard to skew that lower with a few hundred more results over time.
I just got done reading some of the post and it seems I started a little flame war. I didn't think I was asking a question that was similar to asking "Whats better 360 or PS3?".
Bringing up Final Fantasy is like turning off the Rush at a D&D session. The nerds slowly get ornery and someone will eventually get hurt.
Your question (Do I need to start with #1 or can I jump in at #10) is simple enough. Yes, you can jump in at #10! Each game is self contained. In theory that should be the end of the thread. Of course, someone has to interject that the best one is such-and-such and someone says that a certain specific one is objectively bad and it all goes in the shitter.
Though I must say, the debate is more delightful than usual since it literally has nothing to do with anything. That's a fuckin pun right there bitches.
Look it up if you need to.
(you probably do based on the debate)
A plot is not "a place to put a story",
Plot is often designed with a narrative structure, storyline or story arc, that includes exposition, conflict, rising action and climax, followed by a falling action and resolution.
Yup that is where you put the story.
I don't mind debating opinion with you...but right now we're talking about facts, and you're wrong.
You're misusing all kinds of literary terms to hobble together a poorly constructed definition that suits your argument. If you used the terms correctly, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
That chart is correct, and that's what I said in previous posts.
But your insistence that it is "where you put the story" is incorrect.
They are the building blocks of the story.
That's like saying that bricks, mortar, and lumber are "where you put your house".
No...those are the components of your house.
/end discussion.
The plot isn't where you put the story, the plot IS the story.
/end discussion.
I guess I failed to include an "/end discussion" tag when I said this same thing what feels like a dozen times already
Do I need to start from the beginning to actually enjoy the games or can I just pop in a game and have a go?
Answer: No, you can just pop them in and give them a go.
Glad to see it took us 3 pages, charts, quotes, definitions and ramblings to get that answered.
Glad to see it took us 3 pages, charts, quotes, definitions and ramblings to get that answered.
Well, if our discussion didn't follow Freytag's Pyramid, it would have been a little anticlimactic
Sorry to start such a massive argument
Anyways, Manifesto, if you're not into MMORPG's, you won't like FFXI (plus you have to pay to play it), and if you got it for the PS2, I'm not sure if it's still playable (though I'm sure someone will be able to confirm that for you).
And Kingdom Hearts is a badass game, haven't played the 2nd one yet though.
Wow... lol
Sorry to start such a massive argument
Anyways, Manifesto, if you're not into MMORPG's, you won't like FFXI (plus you have to pay to play it), and if you got it for the PS2, I'm not sure if it's still playable (though I'm sure someone will be able to confirm that for you).
And Kingdom Hearts is a badass game, haven't played the 2nd one yet though.
I was really surprised by how good Kingdom Hearts was. Kingdom Hearts 2 was still good, but unfortunately I don't think it lived up to the first one.
Wow... lol
Sorry to start such a massive argument
Anyways, Manifesto, if you're not into MMORPG's, you won't like FFXI (plus you have to pay to play it), and if you got it for the PS2, I'm not sure if it's still playable (though I'm sure someone will be able to confirm that for you).
And Kingdom Hearts is a badass game, haven't played the 2nd one yet though.
I was really surprised by how good Kingdom Hearts was. Kingdom Hearts 2 was still good, but unfortunately I don't think it lived up to the first one.
That's what I heard from a few people who've played it , but they're also the kind of people who have to use strategy guides for games to beat them, so I try to not take what they say too literally. I really enjoyed the first KH, so I'd still like to give the 2nd one a chance.
But your insistence that it is "where you put the story" is incorrect.
They are the building blocks of the story.
An outline inside of which story telling takes place.
Wow... lol
Sorry to start such a massive argument
Anyways, Manifesto, if you're not into MMORPG's, you won't like FFXI (plus you have to pay to play it), and if you got it for the PS2, I'm not sure if it's still playable (though I'm sure someone will be able to confirm that for you).
And Kingdom Hearts is a badass game, haven't played the 2nd one yet though.
I was really surprised by how good Kingdom Hearts was. Kingdom Hearts 2 was still good, but unfortunately I don't think it lived up to the first one.
That's what I heard from a few people who've played it , but they're also the kind of people who have to use strategy guides for games to beat them, so I try to not take what they say too literally. I really enjoyed the first KH, so I'd still like to give the 2nd one a chance.
It's definitely worth the play through. It's just not as amazing as the first so it looks a little worse that it would by itself.
Actually 30 is the magic sample number that you can expect normative data to be retrieved from. So both of those should be fine.
Nonparametric Statistics for the win!
Actually 30 is the magic sample number that you can expect normative data to be retrieved from. So both of those should be fine.
Nonparametric Statistics for the win!
Lol.